70 replies to this topic

[foamyesque]

Heavy Money, on 16 May 2023 - 06:41 PM, said:

Well the people running it are missing out. It has slightly more top dps but less minimum dps (if you build it with weapons in arms to use the -heat side torsos. If not, torso mounts are better but then its min dps falls off a cliff.) Its alpha is a bit higher (88 vs 74) but takes twice as long to deliver and doesn't have the gauss's PPFLD. And the GR+4ERLL can choose to do a full alpha all at once and eat the ghost heat. And of course its much worse vs small fast mechs, has to expose longer, and gets neutered fast once it starts losing DHS.

If you see an 8 ERLL DWF, rejoice! That player has chosen a worse mech than they could have.

That's all true, but there's an intangible benefit in simplifying the decision-making process for the pilot. 'mechs that are easy to drive -- and the 8 ERLL build is as simple as they get -- tend to perform better than their simple raw numbers would indicate.

[Heavy Money]

foamyesque, on 16 May 2023 - 09:19 PM, said:

That's all true, but there's an intangible benefit in simplifying the decision-making process for the pilot. 'mechs that are easy to drive -- and the 8 ERLL build is as simple as they get -- tend to perform better than their simple raw numbers would indicate.

Hehe yeah there's no doubt that people running 8ERLL wouldn't necessarily do better with the higher skill ceiling loadout. Many such cases. I'm just explaining since there's a lot of discussion of sniper DWFs on these forums.

[kalashnikity]

Heavy Money, on 16 May 2023 - 06:05 PM, said:

Its a very common loadout in both QP and Comp

Also, its generally run all on the right side of the mech to allow for corner peeks. So just shoot Right Torso and you'll shut down the whole mech really fast. The build does well in QP because people don't know this. Once you do, even a bit of counter sniping shuts the DWF down fast.

I think I ran into that 8ERLL DWF build before, he just had one laser left in the head after losing a torso.

ETA it may have been a 7 ERLL build, I recall it was all ERLL and all he had left was a head laser after losing a torso.

Edited by kalashnikity, 16 May 2023 - 09:35 PM.

[kalashnikity]

the check engine light, on 16 May 2023 - 09:37 PM, said:

????

What would the advantage even be? Deadsiding seems silly with the torso loss penalty.

^^^

IDK.

I run a (mostly) symmetrical build on my 8ERLL DWF

[Weeny Machine]

Risen Trash, on 16 May 2023 - 09:11 AM, said:

Feels like its just Crusaders and PPC spam all the way down from here on out.

Spoiler: ERLL Boats, Gauss and PPCs await you in T1.
But hey, luckily there is no sniper meta

[PocketYoda]

My Direwhale is 4erppc and 1 ac10.. Works for me.

[Heavy Money]

the check engine light, on 17 May 2023 - 10:34 AM, said:

4 AC10 and 1 ERPPC would probably be better if you can fit it, but you do you

(think I actually tried experimenting with CAC5s and ERPPCs but CAC5s just suck compared to the other options, the 6 CAC5 DWF feels terrible to me as well)

4AC10+ERPPC is what makes the KDK-3 such a monster.

cAC5 based DWFs are quite good, but I agree they feel terrible. I think the cAC5 audio sound might have something to do with it. The whole thing feels like a pea shooter.

[Pixel Hunter]

just fell out of tier 2 because I played a medium mech I wanted to play for a week straight. I'm not really sad. Sweaty 1 and 2 tiers just aren't fun unless you play specific mechs

Edited by Pixel Hunter, 17 May 2023 - 07:54 PM.

[Risen Trash]

feeWAIVER, on 16 May 2023 - 09:49 AM, said:

When I was in Tier 2...

Thanks to you and everyone else's warning of the apparently impending T2 hellscape awaiting me. To be clear, I'm currently high T3, on the cusp of T2. Sorry if my title didn't make that clear.

Heavy Money, on 16 May 2023 - 12:48 PM, said:

What build?

SNS-D 2xGauss and ECM. With its ballistic quirks and cooldown skill its got something like a +30% ROF which feels really good to me, like light gauss' cycle time. With tweak its top speed is almost 90kph, which is pretty cookin' for a 70 tonner. Every now and again I'll drop in with my Corsair or my Blood Asp to break a rut, but the sunny is my daily driver. Its a fast and sneaky squish-cannon that requires head- up, aggressive positioning, good aim, and leaves very little margin for error. I can get some pretty awesome matches out of it, and even when I'm terrible in it, I'm usually having fun.

crazytimes, on 16 May 2023 - 12:28 PM, said:

Oh no. Better stop playing then.

Funny you should say. As I type this, the 3.19 patch is downloading. If it's as good as all the buzz, I may be taking an MWO break...

[crazytimes]

Pixel Hunter, on 17 May 2023 - 07:50 PM, said:

just fell out of tier 2 because I played a medium mech I wanted to play for a week straight. I'm not really sad. Sweaty 1 and 2 tiers just aren't fun unless you play specific mechs

Except you're still in the tier 1 MM bucket. You just now also get to club on tier 5s occasionally as well for the "more fun" gameplay of killing people who don't even know what is shooting them and don't have comms yet. Good for you.

[Widowmaker1981]

the check engine light, on 16 May 2023 - 06:20 PM, said:

It's idiotically easy/lazy to work with. Set up two parallel chainfire groups, point your fat lump of Clantech at a target, hold down LMB and RMB while keeping beam on target until it's time to pick a new victim.

Yeah, thats not how to play big blue laser arrays.

Holding down chainfire groups with lasers waits until 0.5s after the beam ends before it fires the next beam in the group, and the ghost heat limit fades 0.5s after the beam starts so this method is considerably slower than optimal. You either want to keep clicking the two groups every 0.5s or use a macro.

(Still easy to play, granted)

Edit to say that, imo, 6x C-LPL DW is wildly superior to 8x C-ERLL DW for the majority of quickplay matches..

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 18 May 2023 - 02:36 AM.

[LordNothing]

i have a theory that ghost heat was designed with ppfld weapons and were never designed to function well with hitscan weapons, and that is one of the reasons lasers do so well at dodging ghost heat penalties. maybe it was simply assumed at the time that no burn would be longer than 0.5s. i dont think you would have as many blue laser problems if you had to complete one set of burns before starting another to dodge the penalty.

[RickySpanish]

Direwolf can do some fun builds though, like 4 UAC 20, or 4 LB10-X and an ER PPC. You can have a good time, you just have to be willing to walk about with more armour on your head than legs. Pants-on-head, if you will

[Meep Meep]

the check engine light, on 18 May 2023 - 06:57 AM, said:

Having the agility of a garden slug takes a lot of getting used to

That's why I dislike the big slow mechs. I simply can't think slow enough to run them properly. I have to be in something fast that matches my adhd thought process.

Edited by Meep Meep, 18 May 2023 - 07:26 AM.

[Pixel Hunter]

crazytimes, on 17 May 2023 - 11:30 PM, said:

Except you're still in the tier 1 MM bucket. You just now also get to club on tier 5s occasionally as well for the "more fun" gameplay of killing people who don't even know what is shooting them and don't have comms yet. Good for you.

easy buddy, what did I do to you?

[Widowmaker1981]

the check engine light, on 18 May 2023 - 04:47 AM, said:

We're not trying to play optimally, remember, we're playing lazily. If we wanted optimal, we'd put in effort and at that point we'd probably have Gauss or ACs or something. If I personally want to put in effort I play literally anything but a Dire. The chassis does not inspire enthusiasm.

I mean, if you want lazy and have a fairly current gaming mouse it probably supports macros and the macro to fire lasers is hardly difficult to design:

https://imgur.com/a/9XYnosL that allows me to put all weapons in one chainfire group and just hold down one button to fire them (almost) optimally. It doesnt even lock you in, the laser hose stops when you let go of the button.

Agreed on the Dire being a bit of a pig though, i dont really play anything slower than a Blasp.

[sycocys]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 May 2023 - 09:34 AM, said:

I mean, if you want lazy and have a fairly current gaming mouse it probably supports macros and the macro to fire lasers is hardly difficult to design:

https://imgur.com/a/9XYnosL that allows me to put all weapons in one chainfire group and just hold down one button to fire them (almost) optimally. It doesnt even lock you in, the laser hose stops when you let go of the button.

Agreed on the Dire being a bit of a pig though, i dont really play anything slower than a Blasp.

I didn't think macro's were allowed outside of comp play, which seems extra silly that they'd be allowed at all.

[Widowmaker1981]

sycocys, on 19 May 2023 - 04:18 AM, said:

I didn't think macro's were allowed outside of comp play, which seems extra silly that they'd be allowed at all.

They are explicitly allowed.

To be honest, they kind of have to be..

1) They are literally a default feature on lots of gaming hardware, and its hard to say people cant use the hardware they own especially as 2) it would be almost impossible to enforce a ban since they can be really hard to detect - laser chainfire ones are pretty easy to spot, but my most useful design (if little used as i very rarely drop in the MAD II 4L) charges the gauss on press and fires the PPCs + Gauss on release, with no set timer. Externally it looks pretty much identical to just firing them manually but its super useful to me because, for some reason, i just really suck at timing letting go of one button at the same time as clicking the other.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 19 May 2023 - 10:24 AM.

[Meep Meep]

I don't think the macros themselves are the issue. Its that certain weapon combos particularly the extreme range ones are too effective at those extreme ranges and fine tuned game mouse control plus macro can make them quite onerous to play against.

[Pixel Hunter]

Meep Meep, on 19 May 2023 - 01:47 PM, said:

I don't think the macros themselves are the issue. Its that certain weapon combos particularly the extreme range ones are too effective at those extreme ranges and fine tuned game mouse control plus macro can make them quite onerous to play against.

I agree with that, and also the higher up in tiers the more chance of getting pre-made groups that are there just to stomp. Nothing is wrong with playing with buddies, its jut more difficult for a group of solo players to counter.