55 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

you know i once came up with some math to figure out the overall dps of the jam cycle vs the double tap cycle, scaled proportionally with the chance of either occurrence to give you a solid idea of dps over time. but they are seldom used as a pure dps weapon outside of mass boating of uac2s and maybe 5s in certain situations. especially when used with lasers you do your damage dump, duck out and let your heatsinks work. your actual dps is significantly less than your max sustainable dps, let alone your theoretical maximum. as you need to buy time for heatsinks to work and to limit exposure. its gonna be another hill humper mech where you are not beholden to your dps. i cant wait to see how it actually performs.

[sycocys]

The Brewer, on 22 May 2023 - 04:52 PM, said:

While alpha is important, DW being able to fire another HML on top of what was already doable along with a UAC20 is hardly gamebreaking. More so it’s less punishing having the majority of your reliable firepower in the wimpy, low arms that way and the mech is more useable. It’s still a 50t mech with no JJs.

Being that several of you have brought this exact point up - if the problem with the the DW in your opinion is low, weak, useless arms and no JJ.... then why is the update +1 hsl to heavy mediums and a slight buff to heavy medium range and not armor/structure to the weak useless arms and bonus to any/some/all of the mobility stats to counterbalance its lack of JJ?

Based on these arguments against the mech it doesn't make sense to boost what you consider a useless weapon system/hardpoint location in an attempt to make the mech more appealing. It's also a large portion of the reason why I believe folks from the cauldron are often being quite disingenuous about much of their approach to quirks and adjustments.

[Dogmeat1]

sycocys, on 23 May 2023 - 03:26 PM, said:

Being that several of you have brought this exact point up - if the problem with the the DW in your opinion is low, weak, useless arms and no JJ.... then why is the update +1 hsl to heavy mediums and a slight buff to heavy medium range and not armor/structure to the weak useless arms and bonus to any/some/all of the mobility stats to counterbalance its lack of JJ?

This is again you failing to understand why this mech is currently weak and what the quirks are supposed to address. Buffing the arms will change nothing because the arms on both HBK types take damage far less frequently than the torsos and HP is not an problem for them. The issue is having 4 of its 5 energy slots in very low arm mount positions which means that the DW has to expose most of the mech in order to engage. This makes it a very easy mech to focus and kill. It's made worse due having to rely on both the RA and LA mounts which means it cannot side peek either without exposing the entire mech. Buffing mobility will not address that because its still going to remain fully exposed for the entire time it is trading.

Quote

Based on these arguments against the mech it doesn't make sense to boost what you consider a useless weapon system/hardpoint location in an attempt to make the mech more appealing. It's also a large portion of the reason why I believe folks from the cauldron are often being quite disingenuous about much of their approach to quirks and adjustments.

While it may not make sense to you, based on your arguments and assertions that go against both facts and the opinion of players far better than yourself, I think the issue is more you don't actually understand the game's mechanics very well. As mentioned before the quirk buffs will not turn this mech into a top tier medium. All they will do is build on something the mech was already doing ok at and give it at least a small niche to stand out from other mechs. It's still going to be a fragile easily focused and killable mech, without massive unrealistic HP buffs nothing will change that. But the hope is it will at least now have enough of a niche now to justify using it in certain situations.

[foamyesque]

Besides which, giving survival quirks to a mech named "Deathwish" would be kind of silly. That's a name that demands being made into a glass cannon if ever one did.

[sycocys]

Dogmeat1, on 23 May 2023 - 04:48 PM, said:

While it may not make sense to you, based on your arguments and assertions that go against both facts and the opinion of players far better than yourself, I think the issue is more you don't actually understand the game's mechanics very well. As mentioned before the quirk buffs will not turn this mech into a top tier medium. All they will do is build on something the mech was already doing ok at and give it at least a small niche to stand out from other mechs.

My assertions are that much of this balance is done by people that view the game through a very small window of how to play the game - which lead them to design balance changes and arguments for it that are disingenuous at best.

And not that the DW will be the medium god, but will go from being a very well performing HBK-IIC to a/the top performing variant, which is not good because it's the hero iteration. I make that assessment because I actually play a fair amount DW and mostly hunchbacks overall

foamyesque, on 23 May 2023 - 04:52 PM, said:

Besides which, giving survival quirks to a mech named "Deathwish" would be kind of silly. That's a name that demands being made into a glass cannon if ever one did.

I don't particularly disagree, but the repeated assertions for the reasons that the mech is trash/bad are things that could be but are not addressed in any manner.
.

[Samziel]

sycocys, on 24 May 2023 - 04:08 AM, said:

My assertions are that much of this balance is done by people that view the game through a very small window of how to play the game - which lead them to design balance changes and arguments for it that are disingenuous at best.

.

Very small window based on what? Hunch? Feeling? I don't see Cauldron members in stereotypical "blue laser" builds most of the time in qp. In my experience they do play wide variety of builds and mechs.

Considering the thread I don't see how adding 10 damage in range of 270 suddenly makes nearly worst performing variant of a mech top of its class.

Edited by Samziel, 24 May 2023 - 05:45 AM.

[Heavy Money]

Well folks we were worried about nothing. From the discussing I'm seeing, its still bad

Edited by Heavy Money, 24 May 2023 - 03:33 PM.

[LordNothing]

still holding my opinion until i can get one in the science sale, if they do a science sale.

[epikt]

LordNothing, on 25 May 2023 - 09:18 AM, said:

still holding my opinion until i can get one in the science sale, if they do a science sale.

It's on sale this weekend.

[sycocys]

Samziel, on 24 May 2023 - 05:37 AM, said:

Very small window based on what?

Based upon their posts mostly, but also what mechs/and how they tend to get buffed/debuffed.

[LordNothing]

epikt, on 25 May 2023 - 02:33 PM, said:

It's on sale this weekend.

yea i knew they would, i want to say it starts in 10 minutes but i might be off a time zone.

[Battlemaster56]

LordNothing, on 25 May 2023 - 09:18 AM, said:

still holding my opinion until i can get one in the science sale, if they do a science sale.

From the few matches with the DW the UAC20 and 5xHML is to hot just the HML alone cook up the mech to 50% and it holds only a measley 6-7 DHS might have to downgrade to a UAC10 to fit a couple more DHS.

[LordNothing]

ive had a uv for awhile now. i picked up the hunchback iic and vapor eagle heroes, and about 10 other std variants. i blew most of my cbills and havent built the mechs yet. should have enough gsp and hsp to insti-master everything.

i might have enough mc to get an atlas hero, but i got to finish the seraph for the 1500mc at the end and i got to compete all but one of the fp event rewards. i have to do it before the sale ends. so i got a ways to go. im close to ranking one of the factions for 500mc, so that might help.

yea i know how to scrounge up heroes. 39 to go.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 May 2023 - 08:07 AM.