55 replies to this topic

[HauptmanT]

The wasp and stinger are the poster children of Battletech. The game would never have existed if not for the popularity of Robotech. Every single one of us mech dads has been demanding the wasp and stinger since they started adding mech packs.

...and still we dont have them.

They would be pretty horrible little things. Smaller than a Commando with the speed of a Kitfox, if that. But the pop tart would be amazing. Imagine how annoying the Spider would be if it was half the size. Even if they are terrible, I want one NOW. The incubus just isnt the same.

If they dont add them soon, I propose we sharpen pitch forks, and rebel.

[Weeny Machine]

Widowmaker1981, on 30 May 2023 - 10:42 AM, said:

Its more that 35 tonners are about the right size and the others are smaller than they should be.

https://imgur.com/qK1aPLr

That doesnt seem too far off for double the mass, if you give the Jenner the benefit of the doubt and assume smaller mechs are slightly more dense.

If they are "the right size", why have the armour quirks adjusted time and again? Light mechs should be about (partly) avoiding fire. As it stance it is often rolling/tanking damage because everyone with not just a very lousy aim can hit a 35t mech.

What makes it worse is that the different shapes have also a huge impact. A Spider for example (yeah, it is only 30t) is much tankier than a Jenner IIC because it is spindly, etc.
Point is: it is beyond me why there was not made an exception to the rule.

However, at least the latter point is moot to discuss because changing size is beyond the available ressources for sure.

[Storky]

Weeny Machine, on 30 May 2023 - 10:12 PM, said:

If they are "the right size", why have the armour quirks adjusted time and again? Light mechs should be about (partly) avoiding fire. As it stance it is often rolling/tanking damage because everyone with not just a very lousy aim can hit a 35t mech.

What makes it worse is that the different shapes have also a huge impact. A Spider for example (yeah, it is only 30t) is much tankier than a Jenner IIC because it is spindly, etc.
Point is: it is beyond me why there was not made an exception to the rule.

However, at least the latter point is moot to discuss because changing size is beyond the available ressources for sure.

Try to look at them as on more light medium mechs with better speed and smaller size. You can forget about the weight classes at all, just mind the speed / weight ratio and that all mechs have the same internal space.
For example I need 6ML boat. 45t+ is too much for that. 30-40t is optimal weight, then I choose by mechs I have, quirks, speed etc.

Or another approach. I need a laser poker. Medium chassis have normal firepower and good speed for taking positions. But if I want even a better speed in a small cost of firepower for mine poking damage dealing gameplay - I downshift to a lighter chassis.

So I don't get that lighter mechs should have size buff. Armor buff is much better as fun of shooting them.

[Widowmaker1981]

Weeny Machine, on 30 May 2023 - 10:12 PM, said:

If they are "the right size", why have the armour quirks adjusted time and again? Light mechs should be about (partly) avoiding fire. As it stance it is often rolling/tanking damage because everyone with not just a very lousy aim can hit a 35t mech.

What makes it worse is that the different shapes have also a huge impact. A Spider for example (yeah, it is only 30t) is much tankier than a Jenner IIC because it is spindly, etc.
Point is: it is beyond me why there was not made an exception to the rule.

However, at least the latter point is moot to discuss because changing size is beyond the available ressources for sure.

The 'right size' as in a believable size considering the relative mass. Them needing quirks is fine, the smaller mechs do because the source game treats smaller mechs as less valuable.

I think the difference here is that i dont think it should ever be viable to run around in full LOS of multiple enemies without it being basically guaranteed death, like it is for mediums, heavies and assaults.

You're right that the 35 tonners are too big to do that and succeed.

I would prefer if all lights had to play like every other class and use cover, as opposed to the very small ones being able to just run around like crazy things because the only real danger to them is Inner Sphere PPFLD.

Ill also agree its a moot point and wont change.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 31 May 2023 - 10:43 AM.

[Vonbach]

Just what we need another tiny mech thats virtually impossible to hit zooming around.

[Duke Falcon]

Vonbach, on 31 May 2023 - 07:19 AM, said:

Just what we need another tiny mech thats virtually impossible to hit zooming around.

Not sure if it's sarcasm or...

Vonbach, on 31 May 2023 - 07:19 AM, said:

Just what we need another tiny mech thats virtually impossible to hit zooming around.

Time for Protomechs!

Edited by Duke Falcon, 31 May 2023 - 08:22 AM.

[An6ryMan69]

I'd like the Wasp.

The jump jet issues on such a light mech can be solved with perks...

+75% Initial Thrust
+75% Jump Jet Duration
-75% JJ Heat

...so someone can run with physically less jets but still have a usable, jumpy 20 tonner.

Ands, of course, size scaling and speed/agility matched to make it a good, but not OP, mech.

You can't get too caught up on Lore type builds in terms of restrictions in MWO, because nerfs and perks and scaling and agility stats can completely change how useful anything is in this game.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 31 May 2023 - 10:19 AM.

[Strelok7]

SafeScanner, on 29 May 2023 - 11:45 AM, said:

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hermit_Crab

20t Hermit crab anyone, the crab family should be complete!

nice

[Strelok7]

we demand pikachu mech )

[HauptmanT]

An6ryMan69, on 31 May 2023 - 10:15 AM, said:

I'd like the Wasp.

The jump jet issues on such a light mech can be solved with perks...

+75% Initial Thrust
+75% Jump Jet Duration
-75% JJ Heat

...so someone can run with physically less jets but still have a usable, jumpy 20 tonner.

Ands, of course, size scaling and speed/agility matched to make it a good, but not OP, mech.

You can't get too caught up on Lore type builds in terms of restrictions in MWO, because nerfs and perks and scaling and agility stats can completely change how useful anything is in this game.

The Wasp and Stinger are both slow mechs, like a Kitfox. Well slow by 20 tonner standards, like the locust and flea, which are the speedy boys. Problem I see with MWO is the reduced number of heatsinks in smaller engines, which makes slowing down a light mech for more tonnage self defeating. After using all that internal space for those double heat sinks, you may have to drop the Ferro armor, or just plain run outta space. So even if you juggle engines, trying to gain the perfect left over weight for whatever weapon build you want, you lose 30% of your speed and gain a ton or two. Just not worth it. Light mechs are always best off with the largest engine they can carry.

That is the only issue I see with a Wasp/Stinger in MWO. They changed the rules for internal heatsinks on small engines, but not the space requirements for endo and ferro on light chassis.

So I agree, give them x3 or x2 bonus on JJs. and reduce the max available, just so they arent another Spider 5V, and can still carry 4-5 tons of weapons at up to 120kph, even without ferro armor.

Edited by HauptmanT, 01 June 2023 - 03:28 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

HauptmanT, on 01 June 2023 - 03:07 AM, said:

The Wasp and Stinger are both slow mechs, like a Kitfox. Well slow by 20 tonner standards, like the locust and flea, which are the speedy boys. Problem I see with MWO is the reduced number of heatsinks in smaller engines, which makes slowing down a light mech for more tonnage self defeating. After using all that internal space for those double heat sinks, you may have to drop the Ferro armor, or just plain run outta space. So even if you juggle engines, trying to gain the perfect left over weight for whatever weapon build you want, you lose 30% of your speed and gain a ton or two. Just not worth it. Light mechs are always best off with the largest engine they can carry.

That is the only issue I see with a Wasp/Stinger in MWO. They changed the rules for internal heatsinks on small engines, but not the space requirements for endo and ferro on light chassis.

TT has exactly the same rules for internal heatsinks, engine rating / 25 come 'free' with the engine, and 10 minimum are required to operate a mech.

Afaik MWO is identical to TT when it comes to build restrictions for Battlemechs (Omnimechs are more messed with), with the sole exception that you arent limited to engine ratings which are an exact multiple of chassis tonnage (due to no requirement to move an exact number of hexes per turn).