12 replies to this topic

[H 4 R B I N G E R]

Hello Gentlemen,

In this Topic I want to public one of my Tools I created for MWO that helped me frequently for testng out all sorts of Ballistic and Mixed ammo Builds.
https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

This is a very brief manual. To understand the more advanced features, you will need a basic understanding of Excel!
This tool is able to balance your ammo distribution after you have entered

• the total amount of ammo
  
• the number of weapons you have (in the correct row)
  
• the total cooldown quirk of your mech (affects DPS only).

Then the tool will give you a balanced ammo distribution for Alpha only and DPS oriented gameplay. You need to interpret these numbers to get your ideal ammo distribution.




Advanced features:

• UAC DPS/Ammo Estimation:
  
  
  
  Use the table on the bottom right and enter your UAC Jam Chance quirk, then the table will refresh and give you an adjusted value to enter in the table above (this will throw off the Alpha calculation), then pick the value for your amount of UACs you have e.g. 2,837 for 2 UAC2, this is the value you want to enter in the AC2 row.
  
• Custom Cooldown:
  
  
  
  If you have a mech that has a strong quirk for a specific weapon, enter your weapon cooldown in seconds. this only affects the DPS calculation.
  
• Additional DPS:
  
  
  
  Add the DPS value of all unaccounted for weapons to get your final DPS value.

Disclaimer:


I haven't found exact values for Jam Chance and Jam Duration, so the UAC multiplier is a value I got experimentally, so it will become less accurate if a new patch affects the UAC Jam Chance or UAC Jam Duration. Also, I only got my values from IS UACs and used the 2 points each in the Ammo and Jam Duration skill nodes.

Edited by H 4 R B I N G E R, 04 June 2023 - 09:48 AM.

[H 4 R B I N G E R]

Please let me know if you like it?
and share your feedback.

I've put a lot of hours into it, and of all the people I've shared the tool with so far, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who's using it at all.
Which is a bit sad after all the effort and bug fixing.
For example, you have to calculate RACs differently from all other weapons, and that was a huge hassle to finally get it to work.

And feel free to contact me if you want to implement this tool on another platform or website, that would probably increase the usability.
Right now a spreadsheet intimidates most of the players I have shown so far.

[sycocys]

Just curious how you are coming to the conclusion of balanced amount, just a split between alpha and dps or did you come up with a formula for average amount used over an average length match?

[H 4 R B I N G E R]

usually I take either the one or the other Value because I have either a Trade or DPS playstyle in Mind when i design the Mech,
and when the Calc tells me to pack 4,3t and 2,2t I give half a ton more Ammo to the Gun I expect to get used more.

They are a few Cases where you can expect to overconsume on an Ammo Type f.e.

• Long range Weapons will overconsume when the diffrence in range is so high that you shot only one weapon sytem (AC2,LRM <> SRM)
  
• If you use the Alpha DMG value and u get sucken in an continous fight your heat efficient weapons will shot more (like LB10)
  
• If you have RACs and can't DPS trade your other weapons will consume more ( reduce RAC by ~20%)
  
• If I have UACs and balance for Alpha I multiply the amount of ACs with somthing close to 2 like1,5-1,8 (2 UAC10 -> 1,75*2 AC10 ~ 3,5 to put into the column "AC10")

@sycocys


What was your experience with the calculator?
And are you familiar with Excel?

Edited by H 4 R B I N G E R, 01 June 2023 - 05:15 AM.

[Storky]

I love ac5 + cuac5.

If I use Sleipnir with 2xAC5 + 2UAC5, then I have to pick a 2.672 number from the bottom right table and surplus it with 2 (2xAC5).
I enter this 4.672 in the AC5 cell and get amount of ammo below.

But here is a problem - their ammo is different, but they are combined in the single AC5 column.

[H 4 R B I N G E R]

@Storky
you need a little side calculation with the rule of three

you take "Ammo(AC5)" * "UAC Value" / ("UAC+AC Value") = "UAC Ammo" in Tons

In your case 10t × 2,672 ÷ 4,672 = 5,719t
So 6t UAC5, 4t AC5

imo. this more of an egde case and implementing the ACs twice would clutter the table
also this side calulatios in quick enough to do, so u can do it eaven inside a more complex build with diffrent ACs and SRM and still get exact values.
Or try a Build the utilizes the layout better like 2×UAC10 2×RAC2 (personal favorite)

*Edit the CP-S has 0% Jam Chance so the values change to
10t × 2,416 ÷ 4,416 = 5,471t
So 5,5t UAC5, 4,5t AC5 instead

Edited by H 4 R B I N G E R, 01 June 2023 - 06:16 AM.

[Storky]

H 4 R B I N G E R, on 01 June 2023 - 05:53 AM, said:

@Storky
you need a little side calculation with the rule of three

you take "Ammo(AC5)" * "UAC Value" / ("UAC+AC Value") = "UAC Ammo" in Tons

In your case 10t × 2,672 ÷ 4,672 = 5,719t
So 6t UAC, 4t AC

Yes, its about my ratio.
But it would be nice to have a separate columns for Ultra Cannons
And also would be nice to set somehow an average chain duration. For example in average I do 5 strikes on my Sleipnir then go to cover or target does. Hence I always start with unjammed weapons, thus ammo consumption will even bigger. Its quite hard to calculate in head.

And 3rd nice to have is summary damage numbers per weapon and overall.
For example a pure SRM build with 4 tons of ammy may look good. But it just a 240*4 = 960dmg (+ arm bonus for destroying sidetorso). With 60% of accuracy the maximum damage is 600, wich is not much.
So it would be great to show the summary damage.
Its quite an opaque numbers, AC10 is a champion with 230dmg per ton, LG = 200dmg/t and AC20 is just a 160dmg/t. Other cannons goes around 170dmg/t.

nevertheless,
Well done!

[sycocys]

H 4 R B I N G E R, on 01 June 2023 - 04:43 AM, said:

What was your experience with the calculator?
And are you familiar with Excel?

I'm somewhat familiar with excel, don't have it on this rig or I'd have checked it out right off. I'll see if open or google sheets can import it this weekend.

Was really just curious how you went about tackling amount for average usage, a lot of people I chat with about builds tend to be concerned with the amounts I run but I just manually track what I actually use/put on target per mech and refine builds down.

[kalashnikity]

Thanks, OP.

Knowing how much ammo to bring is not intuitive, just based on my own observations on boating...

For ballistics- 20s seem to need about twice as much per damage output, 2s and rac5 seem to need ~50% more than 5s and 10s and rac2 which need a minimum of 1.5 tons per gun. That BAS uac5x3 uac10x1 daka build runs 9 tons and can easily do 1000dmg without running dry.

Streaks need about half of what SRMs need, at least the way I shoot (not that good) 3 or 4 tons of streak will get me about as much dmg as 6 to 8 tons of srm but I'll run dry easily with only 6 tons of SRM

MRMs seem to have an incredibly high damage output per ton, 5 tons on an MRM boat will get you a really long ways, rare to run out with only 5 tons and mrm120.

Viable LRM boats need at least 10 tons to get close to 1000dmg

I never have figured out MGs, but I generally don't run them because I am terrible with facetime MG builds, especially after the Crusader MG crit nerf.

There really should be a tool tip in game to calculate maximum dmg per ton of MG ammo.

[LordNothing]

i do an ammo calibration. really just playing the mech, and see what runs out first. then move a half ton from one to the other until its balanced. if i run out a lot i add more, and if i dont il take some out for some other upgrade. mechs run way too much ammo in my opinion. makes you a damn tinderbox. sucks to run out but that usually means you had a good game.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 June 2023 - 03:52 AM.

[H 4 R B I N G E R]

Storky, on 01 June 2023 - 06:24 AM, said:

Yes, its about my ratio.
But it would be nice to have a separate columns for Ultra Cannons
...
nevertheless,
Well done!

Thank you for your feedback

I have reworked the table to implement additional columns for UACs.
It took me a good part of 3 hours to get everything working as it should, and now the tool is better than ever In Version 1,1 !

Thanks for the replie and the kind words.

[Mechwarrior2342356]

Useful.

Highest compliment I can or will give you.

[kalashnikity]

LordNothing, on 02 June 2023 - 03:51 AM, said:

i do an ammo calibration. really just playing the mech, and see what runs out first. then move a half ton from one to the other until its balanced. if i run out a lot i add more, and if i dont il take some out for some other upgrade. mechs run way too much ammo in my opinion. makes you a damn tinderbox. sucks to run out but that usually means you had a good game.

My calibration has been to CT kill from ~200 meters all 8 mechs on forest colony classic, make sure I have at least that minimum amount of ammo, ballancing ammo amounts from there.