30 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

Snubs should be 15 dmg, like C-ErPpc.

[Pixel Hunter]

It confirms my suspicions about ERLL. 1.2 damage/heat vs. 1.3 damage/heat for almost twice the range is pretty telling. Holy smokes do ERLL need a nerf.

[Vxheous]

Pixel Hunter, on 05 July 2023 - 11:03 AM, said:

It confirms my suspicions about ERLL. 1.2 damage/heat vs. 1.3 damage/heat for almost twice the range is pretty telling. Holy smokes do ERLL need a nerf.

ERLL is also 5 Tons and 2 slots. Not everything is about damage/heat ratio.

[Marcel Leander]

feeWAIVER, on 05 July 2023 - 09:57 AM, said:

Snubs should be 15 dmg, like C-ErPpc.

Went back and fixed it because I see that's what's listed in MechDB, but... is it that the snubs also do splash damage? I copied my numbers from the tool tips and was only aware of the Clan one doing it. Even then, I was very hesitant to include it because I was under the understanding that how much splash damage you got was really dependent on the component hit - doesn't hitting an arm or a leg only splash to a single neighboring component and get you only half the additional damage?

Edited by Marcel Leander, 10 July 2023 - 01:19 AM.

[Marcel Leander]

KursedVixen, on 05 July 2023 - 09:39 AM, said:

wow if this is accurate the atm needs a buff.

I talked about ATM damage in the bullet points of the original post. ATM's have three range brackets. In the closest range, they do 2.5 damage per missile from 60m to 245m, 2 damage from 295-500m, and 1.6 damage from 550-1100m, with linear drop-off between brackets. When you look at the tool tips, they just show the 2 damage per missile that is the second bracket, but the optimal range is listed at 245, which is the tail end of the first bracket. So those are the two stats that made it into the list. I wasn't originally going to clutter up the chart with all the extra ATM info but screw it, I went back to add it. There's a set for each bracket preceding the set for the tooltip based info, if you want to see how the numbers break down at each range.

Since I was doing this, I went ahead and added a minimum range bracket and added the LRM and PPC minimum ranges as well.

Edited by Marcel Leander, 10 July 2023 - 01:49 AM.

[Marcel Leander]

Pixel Hunter, on 05 July 2023 - 11:03 AM, said:

It confirms my suspicions about ERLL. 1.2 damage/heat vs. 1.3 damage/heat for almost twice the range is pretty telling. Holy smokes do ERLL need a nerf.

Vxheous, on 06 July 2023 - 08:42 PM, said:

ERLL is also 5 Tons and 2 slots. Not everything is about damage/heat ratio.

Exactly. You get the extra range, sure, but look at that damage per ton. It's absolutely tanked to barely more than a third of the ERML. And the HSL on those is 3. You don't bring those unless you REALLY need the range, because the rest of your weapons are going to be weight-starved. Plus they come with a hefty 1.1s burn time, which can be a challenge to keep steady on even a stationary target at 1400+ meters. Personally, I'm not a crazy talented sniper so I find very little use for them.

[Marcel Leander]

Star Lit Night, on 05 July 2023 - 08:51 AM, said:

There is a recent detailed test in GD for heat sinks in water too.

http:// https://mwomercs.com...sinks-in-water/

Yeah, I was over in that post discussing some of the math with kalashnikitty. I also ran pretty much the same test as you over in this post. FWIW the PB also has a heat dissipation quirk.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6501717

[Pixel Hunter]

Vxheous, on 06 July 2023 - 08:42 PM, said:

ERLL is also 5 Tons and 2 slots. Not everything is about damage/heat ratio.

yeah, that's why I specifically pointed out the range bonus over normal Large Lasers.

[Vxheous]

Pixel Hunter, on 11 July 2023 - 07:17 AM, said:

yeah, that's why I specifically pointed out the range bonus over normal Large Lasers.

You can also fire 4 large lasers without heat penalty.

[Pixel Hunter]

Vxheous, on 11 July 2023 - 11:51 AM, said:

You can also fire 4 large lasers without heat penalty.

and? so you get one less and you got to be a little more careful with your heat. For having far better damage application even to pretty extreme ranges its more than a fair trade off. Flat out ERLL are still better than large lasers in most situations. Given map design and other things giving ERLL boats a helping hand I think they need to be toned down a bit still. They don't have enough "trade offs" to justify their extreme range IMO.

Edited by Pixel Hunter, 11 July 2023 - 12:13 PM.

[cougurt]

Pixel Hunter, on 11 July 2023 - 12:11 PM, said:

Flat out ERLL are still better than large lasers in most situations.

they're not though. they're obviously better if you're operating at long range, as they should be, but they're strictly worse in every other case. you'll usually be better served trying to move in closer if you're running a laser vomit build, otherwise you may as well go all in with the ERLLs. getting into mid range is rarely enough of an issue in QP to make a hybrid approach worthwhile.