10 replies to this topic

[STRIKER7720]

As a player relatively new to the game I struggled to find a assualt mech that I enjoyed using. After buying and selling assault mechs for a while I settled on the MAD-4L with this build:

mad-4l

It was based on the GrimMechs 4xRAC-2 build and has been heavily modified.

Runs a bit hot but it's manageable, Basically never runs out of ammo(unless the left side torso gets destroyed, at that point I'm probably done for anyways), and has all the features you will ever need and more, maybe too many... What do you guys think?, What would you change?

Edit: Build versions: mad-4l (Original-V1) ---> mad-4l (V2) ---> mad-4l (V3) - At the cost of less than 2 Max DPS(1xLPPC) and a 1/2ton ammo the Sus DPS has nearly doubled from V2 surpassing all Versions along with more heat Efficiency and Speed.

Edited by STRIKER7720, 03 July 2023 - 04:49 PM.

[Horseman]

That's a no. SPPC doesn't synergize with RACs. AP doesn't assist your build in any way. The TC only benefits the SPPC, not the RACs. Stealth Armor is basically useless on an assault mech, taking up a LOT of your already-limited slots to boot. And a single AMS is objectively worse than knowing how to use cover.

[Void Angel]

Well, I do see a few problems and inefficiencies.

You've got a Beagle Active Probe and ECM in the same 'mech. Those systems don't play well together, such that the Beagle won't perform its anti-ECM function while your own ECM is set to to Disrupt enemy sensors (the default, defensive setting.)

Trading in that 4th RAC for the SNPPC (and AMS) creates a ballistic mismatch in your weapons loadout. I don't mean the hardpoint types; the firing pattern and projectile speed of the RAC and SNPPC do not support each other well. The RACs are "staring" weapons, while the SNPPC is a high-impact, slow-firing gun. Their projectile ranges are similar, but not identical, which is going to tend to spread your PPC round strike away from where your RACs are hitting, offsetting the value of the PPC's pinpoint damage. The dramatically different optimal ranges of the two weapon systems is also going to mean that, often, you're either not getting the full damage out of that Snub or else you're fighting at closer range than your RAC convergence can easily handle - any of these three points can be a minor problem, but together they're enough to raise a yellow flag, at least.

So! What I would do to this build - assuming that you're going this route to play around with Stealth Armor because of the quirk - is rework it Thusly. Ditch the AMS to avoid giving away your (Stealth Armored) position, upgun the engine a bit, and fill the rest with heat sinks. You still have a probably excessive 2000 damage worth of RAC ammo, you can move a bit faster to make better use of that stealth, and your heat efficiency is better for when the fighting is heavy.

Stealth Armor is a bit of a pickle on Assaults, though. You're a huge, slow 'mech no matter what you do, so it's challenging to make better use of the extra stealth as opposed to the 2-ish tons of armor you save with Ferro-Fibrous. So, I wish you luck! If you decide to try something else with the build, however, you can always Abuse the HSL Quirk instead of going Stealth Armor. =]

PS: Also, I fixed your back armor; you'll find that you get more out of shifting nearly all your armor forward - it's why those GrimMechs builds have like 3 rear armor points on the builds.

Edited by Void Angel, 02 July 2023 - 02:53 PM.

[BLACKR0SE]

https://mwo.nav-alph...df04c24c_MAD-4L

low range
med range
long range

Edited by BLACKR0SE, 02 July 2023 - 03:02 PM.

[STRIKER7720]

Void Angel, on 02 July 2023 - 02:52 PM, said:

Well, I do see a few problems and inefficiencies.

You've got a Beagle Active Probe and ECM in the same 'mech. Those systems don't play well together, such that the Beagle won't perform its anti-ECM function while your own ECM is set to to Disrupt enemy sensors (the default, defensive setting.)

Trading in that 4th RAC for the SNPPC (and AMS) creates a ballistic mismatch in your weapons loadout. I don't mean the hardpoint types; the firing pattern and projectile speed of the RAC and SNPPC do not support each other well. The RACs are "staring" weapons, while the SNPPC is a high-impact, slow-firing gun. Their projectile ranges are similar, but not identical, which is going to tend to spread your PPC round strike away from where your RACs are hitting, offsetting the value of the PPC's pinpoint damage. The dramatically different optimal ranges of the two weapon systems is also going to mean that, often, you're either not getting the full damage out of that Snub or else you're fighting at closer range than your RAC convergence can easily handle - any of these three points can be a minor problem, but together they're enough to raise a yellow flag, at least.

So! What I would do to this build - assuming that you're going this route to play around with Stealth Armor because of the quirk - is rework it Thusly. Ditch the AMS to avoid giving away your (Stealth Armored) position, upgun the engine a bit, and fill the rest with heat sinks. You still have a probably excessive 2000 damage worth of RAC ammo, you can move a bit faster to make better use of that stealth, and your heat efficiency is better for when the fighting is heavy.

Stealth Armor is a bit of a pickle on Assaults, though. You're a huge, slow 'mech no matter what you do, so it's challenging to make better use of the extra stealth as opposed to the 2-ish tons of armor you save with Ferro-Fibrous. So, I wish you luck! If you decide to try something else with the build, however, you can always Abuse the HSL Quirk instead of going Stealth Armor. =]

PS: Also, I fixed your back armor; you'll find that you get more out of shifting nearly all your armor forward - it's why those GrimMechs builds have like 3 rear armor points on the builds.

Thanks for the detailed reply! After reading you post and looking at your rework I came up with this:

mad-4l.

I know keeping the AP is probably inefficient but I kept it for the sensor boosts. I swapped the Snub for 2xLPPC's(After playing this a bit more I started to notice the Snub lagging behind like you mentioned, originally didn't have the slots to do this but by removing some parts it is now possible), the LPPC's do decrease the heat efficiency by a bit but I think having a more similar range and speed to the RAC's makes up for it. On a side note, I'll have to try the quirk abuse you mentioned at some point(tbh I almost forgot about those).

PS: I'm not sure what's causing MechDB to decrease the SUS Dps by nearly half with this setup?

[STRIKER7720]

BLACKR0SE, on 02 July 2023 - 03:01 PM, said:

https://mwo.nav-alph...df04c24c_MAD-4L

low range
med range
long range

Although it looks a bit odd to me , I might try it out to see how it works.

[Ignatius Audene]

From and efficiently point of view there is only one reason u want this mech. Either for 2Gauss errpc with stealth or 2Gauss 2 erppc ecm. If u don't use this mechs quirks, then u probably find something better for the role.

[Void Angel]

STRIKER7720, on 02 July 2023 - 09:59 PM, said:

PS: I'm not sure what's causing MechDB to decrease the SUS Dps by nearly half with this setup?

It's that decrease in heat efficiency you mentioned. The HPS on the dual LPPCs is 50% higher than with the snub, and the energy weapon is the most limiting factor on your heat efficiency.

As Ignatius pointed out, though, the 'mech is most efficient when you're abusing those heat scale limit quirks to blast a 50-pt alpha into people at 800m. You don't always have to build your 'mech according to its weapon quirks, but especially with Inner Sphere 'mechs, it usually pays to do so. Not to chase you away from the build you're using! If it works, keep using and refining it - but take it from us that it won't work as well in higher Tiers, and you might be better of with a Nightstar for RAC builds.

[Storky]

STRIKER7720, on 02 July 2023 - 12:52 PM, said:

As a player relatively new to the game I struggled to find a assualt mech that I enjoyed using. After buying and selling assault mechs for a while I settled on the MAD-4L with this build:

mad-4l

It was based on the GrimMechs 4xRAC-2 build and has been heavily modified.

Runs a bit hot but it's manageable, Basically never runs out of ammo(unless the left side torso gets destroyed, at that point I'm probably done for anyways), and has all the features you will ever need and more, maybe too many... What do you guys think?, What would you change?

Edit: Current Build: mad-4l

That's a beatiful build to play honestly.

But last years most IS mechs got personality by quirks. Before there was so many similar mechs that you could run the same build on different chassis even hardpointwise.
Now mechwarrior is supposed to play a mechlab minigame to fully evaluate a potential of chassis. Otherwise his build will be inferior to some baseline clan omnimech.

[Void Angel]

Well, the ability of Clan omnis to swap out pods to run optimized hardpoint configurations is part of what makes them generally more powerful before quirks; it's also why many top-tier omnimechs don't have a lot of quirks in the first place. So, you have to swap pods (usually) to get a truly competitive Omnimech, but IS tech doesn't have that option - which is why PGI ended up having to balance the IS techbase with Battlemech quirks.

Hardpoints, weapon characteristics, and 'Mech architecture still matter, though. Literally none of the GrimMechs guides for the King Crab make use of its missile quirks/hardpoints, and the Atlas-K3's missile quirk only applies to a single hardpoint. These are just examples; there are a good number of effective builds that ignore significant weapon quirks - but in general the top tier 'mechs are going to be built around good quirks, on a chassis with effective 'mech architecture and advantageous hardpoints (see also: the Annihilator.)

[BLACKR0SE]

Every person’s way of using every weapon and Mech is different. and not every person likes every mech or every mech class.