40 replies to this topic

[KirtM]

The easiest way to hit T1 is by playing in a group. It feels a lot better to run strats with at least 1 guy who will commit with you. If you're playing solo, I would suggest either a hellbringer of Timber wolf running laser vomit. You'll need a mix of speed and big alpha to farm points. Timberwolf has better heating and option of JJ, while the Hellbringer can use a shield arm in this build. This is a pretty hot build, so make use of your allies' armor and use cover to cool down after every 1-2 alphas.

Timberwolf 6ML, 2 LPL, ECM, 1 JJ
https://mwo.nav-alph...=6e48c907_TBR-S
Hellbringer 6ML, 2 HLL, ECM
https://mwo.nav-alph...c2584_HBR-PRIME

[crazytimes]

You get nothing for tier 1 except longer wait for matches and fewer farming opportunities because tier 4 drop out of your MM pool.

That said- mid range laser vomit. Timber wolf 2LPL+5-6ERML+ECM works in nearly any situation. JJ optional.

[LordNothing]

SafeScanner, on 07 July 2023 - 05:46 PM, said:

id agree with overiding if my mech would'nt implode after the 1-2 second tick of damage
oh hell with it

Boooooooooooooo!

Heretic!

Booooooooooooooo!

theres that new overheat damage node, used with override it can be really useful. i just wish there was a way to set override on as a build default.

[KirtM]

JJ is very much optional, you could basically run any CT for timber wolf. I guess, you could also spam coolshots/artillery strikes too for some extra points if Cbills don't matter. For the hellbringer, I very much would suggest at least doing 2 HLL + 6 ERML to get the biggest alphas possible. I personally like trading 1 heatsink for a TC1 since 5% laser range does come in handy. For skills, I like:
Seismic Sensor
Heat containment
Cool Run
Hill Climb
Armor hardening
Skeletal Density
Laser Duration
Heat Gen
Range

Cooldown isnt needed that much since your alphas are hot as hell and you'll be spending most of your time in cover to cool.

[crazytimes]

Could also go super non-meta mech but stick with laser vomit. Charger Lucky Seven or whatever the hero is does a half decent job. 3LPL+4ERML, LFE, goes nearly 80 with good cooling, and with structure quirks and super low crit quirk you can tank all day with stripped armour and still keep your weapons. Wouldn't spend money on it, but since they're giving away free heros it's not too shabby.

[Mad Mech]

the check engine light, on 07 July 2023 - 06:52 AM, said:

I feel like I am stagnating in T2 and need to evaluate exactly how to move forward, and possibly upward.

Disclaimer:
I have been maxed out T1 since the day it was implemented. Over 21,000 matches played. This is what has worked for me. It may or may not work for you.

DAMAGE is the single most important factor that determines your tier and how quickly you rise and fall through the tiers.

This means that how much damage you do each round should be your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th priority. Everything you do, every mech you pilot, every weapon you fire, and every strategy you implement should be based on one simple question: will this maximize my total damage?

You may be the best teammate in the world, protect your friends, cap flags, help your side win, but if your damage is not at or near the top of the list, your tier rating will stagnate or fall. It's just a fact of the weighted scoring system: damage matters most. Every other stat on the score screen is essentially worthless to your tier. Damage matters even more than victory. That's right, you can rise to T1 without winning a single match as long as you do big damage.

Thankfully, big damage doen’t mean a big mech or big gun. You can rise or fall through the tiers in a light mech just as easily as in an assault or anything in between. It's all about how you balance your mech, your weapons, and your strategy to maximize your survivability which in turn gives you the opportunity to maximize your total damage, and therefore improve your tier. This means:

SURVIVABILITY is the single most important factor that determines big DAMAGE. The longer you are alive, the more chances you have to do more damage. You can’t do damage when you’re dead.

TIPS for maximizing survivability and increasing damage:

• Always choose to be the last mech to die. Yes, you have a choice. When given the option to run/live or stay/get hit, always choose the former. Better to retreat and do more damage later, than to push a bad position and flatline your damage right there. In a 12v12 match, if you are consistently among the first 12 to 18 mechs to fall, then you are immediately losing 50-75% potential damage and thus losing a 50-75% chance to raise your tier. BE PATIENT. (Anecdotal story: Sometimes I find myself with a cherry red core within the first few minutes of the match, usually because I was stupid and ignored all rules of survivability. It’s in those moments I decide to avoid being hit the rest of the match. Only attacking when the probability of success is maximized and my chances of being seen minimized. Amazingly, when I use my brain, I end up alive, at the top of the damage chart, and usually with a victory. Then I think how much better I could have done if I had chosen to survive from the very beginning.)
  
• Do not be the first mech spotted. Human psychology 101: humans tend to fixate on the first target they see, regardless of anything else in their way. So when you are the first mech spotted, chances are you’ll have 2-3 enemy mechs hunting you down like little terminators right off the bat. They will have no pitty or remorse, and absolutely will not stop until you are dead.
  
• Do not get caught alone, especially behind enemy lines. Similar to being the first mech spotted, nothing makes a pack of light mechs happier than a mech without support. If you are going alone, stealth is preferred, EMC is recommended, and speed is mandatory.
  
• Always use cover, even when traveling. Mechs in the open are seen. Seen mechs get dead.
  
• Always plan an escape route before moving or attacking. When the S hits the fan, you will only have time to react to your plan, and no time to plan your reaction.
  
• Always use the max range seismic perk. Seismic allows you to know how many enemies are moving around you, and more importantly, what direction they’re headed. This gives you the powerful option of knowing if you should retreat, stay still, or attack. Unlike UAV, seismic doesn’t give away your position, has unlimited ammo, has unlimited duration, and can see enemies both above and below you regardless of cover or terrain.
  
• Use targeting speed perks. The faster you can see an enemy mechs armor vulnurabilities, the faster you can prioritze those mech parts. Sheering off body parts means more damage for you, less damage for them, and helps keep you and your team safer, faster.
  
• Use ECM. Again, people tend to shoot the first target they see, and ECM helps reduce the changes of you being seen/targeted first. When I use ECM, it seems I am shot about 20% less. That’s no small thing.
  
• Consider STEALTH. Stealth reduces you being shot by about 80%. Many people use thermal vision on every map to easily spot heat signatures. Stealth makes you invisible to heat, even to UAV’s. Plus it’s crazy fun to walk around and shoot people unnoticed, especially when you’re standing right in front of them.
  
• Use camo patterns. Do not underestimate this. A digital camo pattern with mostly black with some grey/white specks will help you blend into most terrain, especially if you are stationary with ECM and/or steatlh. Blinging your mech out with cool artwork and gizmos helps you get fashionable, but also helps you get you seen. Getting seen gets you dead. Using camo helps increase your survivability about 1 - 10%. Not much, but every little bit helps.
  
• Use mechs, weapons, and tactics you are comfortable with and that compliment your strengths as a player or even your mood. For example, when I’m tired or lazy, I play larger slower mechs that are more forgiving. When I’m more alert, I play smaller faster mechs that require faster adaptation to fluid situations. Also, if you have poor hand/eye coordination like I do, avoid using speed-related projectile weapons like PPC’s and Cannons. Sure, they do great pin-point damage but their damage is zero if you can’t hit anything. Better off with lasers and do at least some damage.
  
• Boat your weapons with synergy. One of my favorite setups is the Timberwolf with 2xLPL, 5xERML, +ECM. Both the large and medium lasers can be fired simulaneously without penality, have nearly identical cooldown rates, and similar ranges. This means I don't have to think about which weapon to use in which situation; I just alpha every shot and use my saved brain power to think about my tactical positioning and survival.
  
• Be mobile. Mobile mechs tend to survive longer than slow mechs. They’re harder to hit, they can duck in and out of cover faster, and can relocate to a safer attack positions faster. Faster mechs also help you do more damage by chasing down that stray mech on the other side of the map late in the match while those slow assaults have no chance to get eyes on target. I consider “fast” mechs +72kph, preferably +80kph.
  
• Be flexible. Adapt. If a situation looked good a few seconds ago but suddenly it changes, then change with it. Often I find myself married to a tactic that isn’t working simply because I thought it was a good idea 5 minutes ago. “But... if I just force it...” Nope, dead.
  
• Have attack range. I have several mech loadouts that I simply love... if I could just get into the situation where they could be useful. For example a dual heavy ppc and 20ac build that just destroys, except that my max range is only 320, which means I’m doing 0 damage most of the time while simultaneously getting hit. Builds like this are fine when you’re already in T1 and have plenty of wiggle room to mess around, but not when you’re trying to get there.
  
• Stay cool. Potential dps means nothing if overheating is capping your actual dps. If you are going to run hot, at least have a fast cool-off speed. Personally I like my cooling to be 1.5 or higher whenever possible. What you don't want is standing around doing nothing watching your heat bar slowly, slowly...
  
• Attack with teammates whenever possible. Never go 1v1 unless you have no other choice or the target is unable to return fire. This means that if you encounter a group of hostiles, don't attack. Take cover. Wait for support.
  
• Remember every weapon you fire has a return address. If you are alone and hostiles are moving away from you, resist the temptation to shoot them in the back unless you're guaranteed a kill. Chances are somone will see you or at least know where the shot came from, and likely communicate that to a hit squad now headed your way. If you do shoot, expect it to be your last safe shot. Or, if you you feel like taking a chance, don't shoot the guy closest to you, but instead shoot the guy furthest from you. If you're lucky, he'll turn around and think it was his buddy behind him. You can create some local unrest or at least enough confusion to make a safe relocation shoot 'n scoot.
  
• Situational awareness. Know the map. Where is the enemy coming from? What paths are they likely to take? What locations am I likely to be seen? Where am I likely to be flanked or sniped? Once you have established the kill zones, establish safe zones from which you can safely attack. This will all change as players move around the map. Don't be a sheep. Just because the crowd is together doesn't mean its safe. Think for yourself. Be prepared to survive.

And here's some answers to your questions based on all my BS above:

Question 1:
Is it better to stick with a given chassis, playstyle or loadout type for an entire session or is switching up between matches conducive to better results?

Find a mech you like then master it. Fully understand your strengths and weakness as a player, then how that compliments the strengths and weakness of your mech and weapons, then how all that matches up against enemy mechs, weapons, maps, and situations during combat. Once you master mech or two, you can start switching between them based on your mood.

If you find yourself dominated by a particular hostile mech chasis, sometimes I find it helpful to buy the hostile mech, including the loadout that defeated me, then play it a while to understand its strengths and weaknesses. Then switch back to my mastered mech, avoiding the hostile mechs strengths while pressing its weaknesses. Eventually you'll build a mental library that will save you. Simple example: if you see a lone assault with 4xLRM20 and a tag, rush it for easy damage and a kill.

Question 2:
Which is more important when deciding who I need to be nearest to on any given map - my optimal range, my ground speed or something else?

Depends. I don't like my answer but this is combat and combat is fluid.

Regarding range, I mentioned in my ramblings above that one of my favorite builds is a 320 range killer. But if the most important thing is getting into range, I am likely to push bad situations as I try to get within that range. Now I've been seen and shot several times before I've even done 1 point of damage. Maybe I kill someone, maybe two, but I've voilated just about every rule of survival and significantly capped my potential damage output.

It's for this reason I prefer longer ranged weapons, 400 minimum, 600+ preferred, so that I can do max damage in the 500 range (which is about the range of most combat) or even some damage up to 1100. This way I don't have to worry about "staying in optional range". Lasers are prime for this.

Regarding speed, speed is king. It's great for both offense and defense, so it should be a priority no matter what your build or play style. Light mechs are fast with limited alpha, assaults are slow with powerful alpha, but there's a sweet spot for heavies that can go 80+ with firepower near an assult. Ultimately it depends which one best matches your play style and survivability.

Question 3:
When is taking top on Vitric, taking the high ridge on FWC or staying on the top mid area in HPG NOT the optimal choice?

Again, it depends. Generally speaking, it's easier to fire from an elevated/protected position onto a lower/unprotected position. But MWO is so fluid that your elevated/protected position may quickly become an elevated/unprotected position. Maybe even surrounded by hostiles. Then you're dead, because some little flying ******* is eventually going to push you out of your nest.

Mike Tyson once said that all his planning and strategy goes out the window the moment he gets punched in the nose. Military generals have said similar; that first bullet ruins the best laid plans. MWO may be simulated combat, but it's still combat and combat is fluid. Tactical awareness is everything and will keep you alive. You must constantly evaluate your surroundings. A great strategy at one moment may result in death the next. Look for the signs of tactical change. Where is the nearest kill box. Where is the nearest safe zone. What are my routes of escape. Tactical awareness. I can't stress this enough.

Survivable Mech Recommendations:

Pirate's Bane
If there is one mech that, in my opinion, is the best mech in the game that teaches tactical awareness (and thus survivability) more than any other mech, it's the Locust "Pirate's Bane". When I lose tactical awareness, when PGI rebalances things and screws up what i thought I knew about metas and playstyles, this is what I switch to. Good 'ol Pirate's Bane.

First and foremost, it's the smallest and fastest mech in the game. That grants the god-like ability to get out of trouble just as fast as I got into it. Combined with ECM, Stealth, and good tactical camo, it's neally impossible to see or hit, making it the perfect scout, giving you a valuable "forest through the trees" tactical awareness by just observing.

Add 4-5x medium lasers, and you now have a fast and invisible ankle biter with teeth and range. Attacking from the flanks or rear, you can harrass the enemy virtually untouched. Plus it has 30% Cbill bonus to help buy other mechs.

Downside is with low dps you'll have to engage a lot of enemies to rack up damage, but getting in and out of combat that many times is good practice. Also, you can easily be one-shot with projectiles, so just follow first rule of survival: choose to be the last mech to die.

Bounty Hunter
Alternative recommendation to a "survivable" mech is the Timber Wolf "Bounty Hunter". 75 ton heavy running at 81kph. 2xLPL, 5xERML, 632m optimal range, 56 dmg alpha on a 4 sec cooldown. 1.57 cooling means it can alpha every shot to near infinity. ECM helps it not be seen. It's fast, dangerous, and can take a hit or two. Stay hidden, get into position, then alpha them dead. This mech lives up to its name.

Edited by Mad Mech, 10 July 2023 - 12:22 AM.

[RockmachinE]

the check engine light, on 09 July 2023 - 02:33 PM, said:

I don't particularly like farming people.

This is very arrogant of me, but if you're good enough you don't really have to farm people, or try really hard, or play meta mechs...or run groups to stay in T1.

I keep saying this everytime the debate crops up. If you force farm PSR you won't be having fun as the only way to sustain Tier will be to pilot meta and try hard all the time which can get exhausting really quick and isn't fun.

Just stay in whatever Tier you're at and let it organically go up as you get better and so long as you have the right mindset and are having fun it will go up!

Edited by RockmachinE, 09 July 2023 - 06:44 PM.

[RockmachinE]

Mad Mech, on 09 July 2023 - 06:34 PM, said:

Anecdotal story: Sometimes I find myself with a cherry red core within the first few minutes of the match, usually because I was stupid and ignored all rules of survivability. It’s in those moments I decide to avoid being hit the rest of the match. Then I think how much better I could have done if I had chosen to survive from the very beginning.

Nice writeup Mad Mech. Great tips.

Ive noticed this phenomena too and I find it hilarious. It doesn't just go for armor, but also weapons. If I find myself with a red/orange CT I play so much better defensively its comical. Same goes for weapons if I find myself with like 1 or 2 medium lasers I become aim god. But when all the resources are full and the mech is healthy it doesn't happen. Goes to show its all in the head.

One difference with me though, if I find myself damaged so quickly so badly I usually don't have patience for that sh*t so I just run in and try to take a dude with me as I go down. I generally don't have much patience for MWO, I love it, but its slow af.

[Mad Mech]

Thought of two more tips, audio related:

• Use headphones. Use over-the-ear headphones. Better yet, use over-the-ear noise canceling headphones. Headphones allow you to hear enemy footsteps, weapon sounds, and the poinpoint direction/distance of those sounds that you can't hear with speakers. Noise canceling headphones bring out those sounds even more. If you can't see where the enemy is, next best thing is to hear where they are.

• Turn off your warhorn. I know, you paid for it and it sounds cool. You want everyone to hear you made a kill. Except everone includes the enemy. Now they know exactly where you are. Something to consider when choosing a warhorn.

Edited by Mad Mech, 09 July 2023 - 09:34 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

Mad Mech, on 09 July 2023 - 08:47 PM, said:

• Turn off your warhorn. I know, you paid for it and it sounds cool. You want everyone to hear you made a kill. Except everone includes the enemy. Now they know exactly where you are. Something to consider when choosing a warhorn.

What if you're carrying 36 tons of weaponry and you want them to find you?

[LordNothing]

the check engine light, on 09 July 2023 - 06:53 PM, said:

Didn't someone say those nodes were bugged? Wasn't sure if that was actually proven though.

i don't know one way or the other.

honestly i wish they would stop messing with the tree, its getting really expensive. fine with adding new nodes though.

[crazytimes]

DrxAbstract, on 10 July 2023 - 08:16 AM, said:

What if you're carrying 36 tons of weaponry and you want them to find you?

My sneakier lights or ECM med/heavies I don't have warhorns, decals or bright colours on. Brawly assaults are more party-bus themed though and warhorns essential to having fun.

Then there's the Urbie K9, which is bright pink, every decal slot filled and flashing lights and siren. People need to know the Urbie is coming so it's fair.

[Cherge]

My personal 2 cents, if you're purely concerned about getting to T1, there are probably builds out there that work way better (for you) than you think just because they don't show up on tier lists

Here are mechs that I unironically do very consistently well with

1) 3x Streak 6, 1x Narc KFX-D
2) 3x ERLL Raven

[sycocys]

the check engine light, on 11 July 2023 - 05:12 AM, said:

So far my best performer is a SHD-2K running XL300, 5JJ, 3LPPC+3MRM10+2t ammo+4DHS plus double coolshot and a UAV. The 2K seems to be most popular as an SRM Snub skirmish-brawl mech, so I guess I'm skirting meta there. The SRM Snub build is great... if you can close to optimal. Recent matches have taught me that's not common.

I run that with the double snub and srm6/a's it's fun, not too often you can't get the range, torso boxes are a bit too big though imo.
I prefer the HBK-4SP - XL275, 5 MPL, 2 SRM6/a 2 tons, 3 DHS and Bap. I don't use consumables.
MPL is great at setting your range for SRM6/a to drop it on them at the point the grouping comes back together.

[CherokeeRose187]

Hard for me to stay in T2 when testing builds on mechs that I'm leveling up, or testing new types of builds on already leveled mechs. Or just in a mood to mess aorund with new play styles.

It's easy to get to T1 if you drop with a group of T3/T2 players and use T E A M W O R K

You'll help each other's scores, and thus Tier up easier when your team wins because of said teamwork.

Or if you are very vocal in matches and are good at calling you can often enough make a difference and cause your team to win more often, thus helping your tier.

I don't play in teams for reasons a few here can deduce... and I don't often get in a mood to call the match, so I'm T2.

Edited by CherokeeRose187, 12 July 2023 - 08:28 AM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

the check engine light, on 11 July 2023 - 05:12 AM, said:

So far my best performer is a SHD-2K running XL300, 5JJ, 3LPPC+3MRM10+2t ammo+4DHS plus double coolshot and a UAV. The 2K seems to be most popular as an SRM Snub skirmish-brawl mech, so I guess I'm skirting meta there. The SRM Snub build is great... if you can close to optimal. Recent matches have taught me that's not common.

i run mine with a mixed build and it does pretty well. (2 SRM-6 (3t ammo), 3 LPPC, 1 AMS (1tammo) running an LE-285 with 4 DHS, 2 JJ, and endo)

here is the build code if you are interested

AJ2820o0|i^|OG|Sg|OGp[0|7@|7@|i^|i^q[0|i^|G@|G@|G@|f?r20s20t]0|\Ou]0|\O|\OvB0|AOw909090

i did run 2 MRM-10 for a bit though and it did well enough.

~~~~~~~~~

as for the main question for OP, i wouldn't worry about your Tier lvl, just play the game and have fun. Tier is more a tool for the match maker (hell i half think it should be hidden from the player, i think more people would use more diverse builds instead of constant meta if they weren't chasing that Tier climb) so it can place you with equally skilled players. sadly with low population and groups in QP the MM often shits itself. back when i first started playing MWO population numbers were higher and there were no groups in QP so matches tended to be more even skill wise. oh the MM still **** the bed every now and again and did things like one team with no Assaults the other with many or one team with no lights (part of me thinks there was once game where one team had no lights or Assaults and the other had only Lights and Assaults but my memory is shoddy at the best of times.)

so yeah i wouldn't worry about your Tier. just play the mechs and builds you have fun with and enjoy yourself while the game still has a small spark of life still in it.

CherokeeRose187, on 12 July 2023 - 08:11 AM, said:

It's easy to get to T1 if you drop with a group of T3/T2 players and use T E A M W O R K

[Redacted]

[Glymbol]

Mad Mech, on 09 July 2023 - 06:34 PM, said:

Disclaimer:
I have been maxed out T1 since the day it was implemented. Over 21,000 matches played. This is what has worked for me. It may or may not work for you.

DAMAGE is the single most important factor that determines your tier and how quickly you rise and fall through the tiers.
...

I don't know you and I have nothing against you personally.

I despise described playstyle deeply. In short these advices are to me: "be selfish", "don't help your team if you could get shot", "run away from the fights to do more damage later". This is a recipe for a good score, I'm sure it works but also it is a recipe for being a coward in game, that hides instead of fights, when it's most needed by the team.

I would like to have team that helps if I am calling for help, that pushes together for better or worse, not just turn away and hide when being shot. Ask yourself if you'd like to have a team of "damage farmers" instead.

However you are right, damage is most rewarded in the game and the easiest way to go up in tiers. I have much simpler advice: IN ORDER TO DO MORE DAMAGE - SHOOT THEM ENEMIES MORE.

Edited by Glymbol, 14 July 2023 - 11:49 PM.

[CFC Conky]

Glymbol, on 14 July 2023 - 11:45 PM, said:

...

I would like to have team that helps if I am calling for help, ...

...

I guess it depends on why you're asking for help. We've all seen the players who go off by themselves then hit that 'need assistance' key when they get pushed. I've died too many times trying to help so now it's 'yeah no'.

What I find most annoying however, are the players who just hit 'need assistance' without explaining why, either by voip, chat, or a UAV. I'm not a mind reader so I'll ask why and if there is no response it's 'yeah no' again unless the enemies show up on my scanners and/or minimap. Now I realize that some players may not speak/understand English very well, if at all, don't have a mic, or don't have time to type in chat. I just chalk that up to part of the MWO gaming experience.

Coordinating random pugs can be.......difficult.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 15 July 2023 - 08:21 AM.

[Mad Mech]

Glymbol, on 14 July 2023 - 11:45 PM, said:

However you are right, damage is most rewarded in the game and the easiest way to go up in tiers. I have much simpler advice: IN ORDER TO DO MORE DAMAGE - SHOOT THEM ENEMIES MORE.

Basically that's it.

OP wanted to know how to get T1.
Answer: survive and do damage.
No teamwork required.

That's how the devs created quickmatch scoring. No teamwork. Only the devs can change it.

Personally I dislike T1. Most matches are a 12-3 rout murderball toilet flush with flanking squads of lights. It's boring. It didn't use to be this way. But that's a topic for another thread.

Edited by Mad Mech, 15 July 2023 - 09:44 PM.

[RockmachinE]

Mad Mech, on 15 July 2023 - 09:40 PM, said:

No teamwork required.
That's how the devs created quickmatch scoring. No teamwork. Only the devs can change it.

Except that if you know anything about MWO, you'd also know that teamwork yields more damage and a higher score.