7 replies to this topic

[Toddasaurus]

Simply put, x-pulse is extraordinarily niche - to the point where it's largely simply worse in every way than regular pulse lasers. They either need more damage, maybe an even faster cool down, OR at least increase range so it's more like they're supposed to be. The Large X-Pulse is particularly bad.

HAG needs a change as well. The closest IS weapon to this, in terms of damage, would be MRM's. But HAG is significantly better than MRM in every single way. Way more range, way more velocity, and especially SIGNIFICANTLY less spread. This needs to be changed.. Spread needs to increase a lot - I'm not saying it should be as bad/spready as MRM, but it should have more spread than it does right now. This weapon is insanely good on assaults. There is really no drawback to it.

Now if PGI were trying to make things more equivalent to actual battle tech lore, then yes, the HAG is probably about right.

But, as it stands, these new weapons heavily favor clan.

Edited by Toddasaurus, 26 August 2023 - 03:56 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Toddasaurus, on 26 August 2023 - 03:49 PM, said:

Simply put, x-pulse is extraordinarily niche - to the point where it's largely simply worse in every way than regular pulse lasers. They either need more damage, maybe an even faster cool down, OR at least increase range so it's more like they're supposed to be. The Large X-Pulse is particularly bad.

HAG needs a change as well. The closest IS weapon to this, in terms of damage, would be MRM's. But HAG is significantly better than MRM in every single way. Way more range, way more velocity, and especially SIGNIFICANTLY less spread. This needs to be changed.. Spread needs to increase a lot - I'm not saying it should be as bad/spready as MRM, but it should have more spread than it does right now. This weapon is insanely good on assaults. There is really no drawback to it.

Now if PGI were trying to make things more equivalent to actual battle tech lore, then yes, the HAG is probably about right.

But, as it stands, these new weapons heavily favor clan.

Hag does not need to be changed it's worse than the RAC 5 also it explodes, and it requires a charge up like agauss you can only shoot two at a time so even if you mount more than 2 you can only shoot 2, ontop of that they are huge and hot.


Also ALL Hags have a minimium damage of 5 if you miss all the pellets, but 1

You forgot Binary laser cannons 18 damage for the size and heat of 2 large lasers

Clan ballstics have been severly underrrated compared to IS ballstics and now that clan has one to semi-compete with IS racs your complaining.

Edited by KursedVixen, 26 August 2023 - 05:35 PM.

[Toddasaurus]

KursedVixen, on 26 August 2023 - 05:23 PM, said:

Hag does not need to be changed it's worse than the RAC 5 also it explodes, and it requires a charge up like agauss you can only shoot two at a time so even if you mount more than 2 you can only shoot 2, ontop of that they are huge and hot.


Also ALL Hags have a minimium damage of 5 if you miss all the pellets, but 1

You forgot Binary laser cannons 18 damage for the size and heat of 2 large lasers

Clan ballstics have been severly underrrated compared to IS ballstics and now that clan has one to semi-compete with IS racs your complaining.

To your point, RAC's have to be spun up before firing, and each "pellet" does significantly less damage than an equivalent "pellet" from any level HAG. The fact that HAG can explode is overwhelmingly offset by the SIGNIFICANT range, velocity, and of course, the incredibly tiny grouping. The HAG has much less face time than any RAC, all while doing SUBSTANTIALLY more damage. Hence why I'm comparing them to MRM - similar damage potential for both, but the MRM is more of a sandblaster compared to the precision of the HAG, nevermind the significant range difference. Charging it up, alone, I think, does not make up for the difference. There needs to be a change in the spread.

IS ballistics, in general, have some benefits over their clan equivalents, but are offset by size and weight - nevermind the fact that clan ballistics all have higher range, are smaller, and weigh a lot less. Don't forget that the c-gauss is so much lighter and smaller than it's IS variant, yet it has no drawback. Even so, these things, in my opinion, are about as balanced as you can hope for given that they're not supposed to be balanced according to lore. It's a waste of time to go into clan general ballistics vs IS ballistics, as they've been rebalanced so many times over the past several years that I think they're as compromised as possible, given the unequal grounds they stand on.

I'm uncertain what you're trying to highlight when you say that a HAG has a minimum damage of 5 if you miss all but one of the "pellets" - I could argue that RAC and MRM have a minimum damage of less than 1 and 1, respectively if you miss all "pellets" but one... Case in point, MRM's and RAC's are essentially useless on a relatively quick light pilot - such should be the same with HAG's.

I didn't bring up IS binary lasers because I think, largely, they are fair. They weigh 9 tons. Think about that, 9 tons. Clan Heavy Large's do the same amount of damage, but they weigh half as much and take half the slots. This is, of course, offset by the longer duration, higher heat and slower recharge time. All of this is assuming that PGI doesn't allow for 3 firing at the same time w/out ghost heat in the next patch. If they allow that to stay, then I agree, binaries would be unfair.

My recommendation is to have HAG's have a wider spread than they currently do. Somewhere in-between where the spread is right now vs what the MRM spread is. I think that's pretty dang fair, considering the huge advantages they still have (eg insane velocity, range, and damage potential, as I previously stated.)

---OR----

Just tighten up the spread on the MRM's a little bit more. Then I'd say things are very much fair.



Anyway, you've disagreed, which is fine, but I have yet to see you provide an alternative or even an objective argument.

Edited by Toddasaurus, 27 August 2023 - 03:44 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Toddasaurus, on 27 August 2023 - 02:07 PM, said:

To your point, RAC's have to be spun up before firing, and each "pellet" does significantly less damage than an equivalent "pellet" from any level HAG. The fact that HAG can explode is overwhelmingly offset by the SIGNIFICANT range, velocity, and of course, the incredibly tiny grouping. The HAG has much less face time than any RAC, all while doing SUBSTANTIALLY more damage. Hence why I'm comparing them to MRM - similar damage potential for both, but the MRM is more of a sandblaster compared to the precision of the HAG, nevermind the significant range difference. Charging it up, alone, I think, does not make up for the difference. There needs to be a change in the spread.

IS ballistics, in general, have some benefits over their clan equivalents, but are offset by size and weight - nevermind the fact that clan ballistics all have higher range, are smaller, and weigh a lot less. Don't forget that the c-gauss is so much lighter and smaller than it's IS variant, yet it has no drawback. Even so, these things, in my opinion, are about as balanced as you can hope for given that they're not supposed to be balanced according to lore. It's a waste of time to go into clan general ballistics vs IS ballistics, as they've been rebalanced so many times over the past several years that I think they're as compromised as possible, given the unequal grounds they stand on.

I'm uncertain what you're trying to highlight when you say that a HAG has a minimum damage of 5 if you miss all but one of the "pellets" - I could argue that RAC and MRM have a minimum damage of less than 1 and 1, respectively if you miss all "pellets" but one... Case in point, MRM's and RAC's are essentially useless on a relatively quick light pilot - such should be the same with HAG's.

I didn't bring up IS binary lasers because I think, largely, they are fair. They weigh 9 tons. Think about that, 9 tons. Clan Heavy Large's do the same amount of damage, but they weigh half as much and take half the slots. This is, of course, offset by the longer duration, higher heat and slower recharge time. All of this is assuming that PGI doesn't allow for 3 firing at the same time w/out ghost heat in the next patch. If they allow that to stay, then I agree, binaries would be unfair.

My recommendation is to have HAG's have a wider spread than they currently do. Somewhere in-between where the spread is right now vs what the MRM spread is. I think that's pretty dang fair, considering the huge advantages they still have (eg insane velocity, range, and damage potential, as I previously stated.)

---OR----

Just tighten up the spread on the MRM's a little bit more. Then I'd say things are very much fair.



Anyway, you've disagreed, which is fine, but I have yet to see you provide an alternative or even an objective argument.

rac2 does 6.55 damage per second while the Rac 5 does 10.91 per second

rac spinup is probably around the same as gauss charge up

you can fire as many racs as you want with gh kicking in at 4 rac 2's and 5's at 3 you can only fire 2 hags at
a time.

Racs also get a special skill tree quirk that lengthens the time for the bar to fill making it fill slower.

You can stop firing racs mid burst ,but not hags.

Racs have no listed cooldown in game Hags have 4 for the 20, 5 for the 30 and 6 for the 40.

you can only fire one hag 40 without ghost heat only the hag 40 applies as you cannot fire more than 2 of them at a time also there's the ghosty ghost heat from firing gauss and large lasers.

heat on racs
2 per second for rac 2
3.25 per seconf for rac 5
Heat on HAG
20 5.5
30 8.25
40 11

for the exact same TONNAGE AND SLOTS as a Hag 20 you can get RAC 5 that if you can aim and if your target stays in sight long enough can do more damage in 3 seconds... and need I mention you can continue firing the RAC 5? Meanwhile the Hag 20 is on cooldown for the next 5.5 seconds, and then there's the few seconds of charge time.

Now for ammo not counting quirks or skill tree.
48 per ton for ALL Hags

175 for Rac 5
350 for Rac 2





And since ya'll wont' shutup about it X-pulse should be 2x hotter and binary laser should only do 12 damage,... or if you want that 18 damage give binary cannon 14.5 heat.

Edited by KursedVixen, 30 August 2023 - 03:45 PM.

[NobCat]

Toddasaurus, on 27 August 2023 - 02:07 PM, said:

The fact that HAG can explode is overwhelmingly offset by the SIGNIFICANT range, velocity, and of course, the incredibly tiny grouping.

At "SIGNIFICANT" range the spread is awful to the point that you might land 1 chunk, out of the several you will throw, if you are lucky.

If it's meant to be a ranged weapon, then let it be a ranged weapon and lower the spread a bit.

[KursedVixen]

NobCat, on 30 August 2023 - 02:29 PM, said:

At "SIGNIFICANT" range the spread is awful to the point that you might land 1 chunk, out of the several you will throw, if you are lucky.

If it's meant to be a ranged weapon, then let it be a ranged weapon and lower the spread a bit.

It's more of a medium ranged weapon tbh.... on top of that if you twitch at all when you fire it spreads everywhere. As stated here the most you will hit at max optimum range is one pellet and even then the spread is big enough that it won't likely hit a single component but multiple... even at about 500 meters you can see the spread on the larger ones.

Edited by KursedVixen, 30 August 2023 - 03:52 PM.

[simon1812]

Toddasaurus, on 26 August 2023 - 03:49 PM, said:

Simply put, x-pulse is extraordinarily niche - to the point where it's largely simply worse in every way than regular pulse lasers. They either need more damage, maybe an even faster cool down, OR at least increase range so it's more like they're supposed to be. The Large X-Pulse is particularly bad.

HAG needs a change as well. The closest IS weapon to this, in terms of damage, would be MRM's. But HAG is significantly better than MRM in every single way. Way more range, way more velocity, and especially SIGNIFICANTLY less spread. This needs to be changed.. Spread needs to increase a lot - I'm not saying it should be as bad/spready as MRM, but it should have more spread than it does right now. This weapon is insanely good on assaults. There is really no drawback to it.

Now if PGI were trying to make things more equivalent to actual battle tech lore, then yes, the HAG is probably about right.

But, as it stands, these new weapons heavily favor clan.

No

[KursedVixen]

NobCat, on 30 August 2023 - 02:29 PM, said:

At "SIGNIFICANT" range the spread is awful to the point that you might land 1 chunk, out of the several you will throw, if you are lucky.

If it's meant to be a ranged weapon, then let it be a ranged weapon and lower the spread a bit.

Not anymore they totally removed spread. and increased heat, I dissagree with what they did it should have been left like it was the first time they changed it ,but i believe frost_byte said they were doing too well mid range....

And now their going to nerf clan double heat sinks.....

Edited by KursedVixen, 01 December 2023 - 01:34 PM.