23 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

I haven't gone back to play MWO, though I don't have plans to do so.

But the new weapons piqued my interest. I have some thoughts, based on mere impression of the stats, and some streamers impression, but ultimately not sure if it's correct. Take it with a grain of salt.

> X-Pulses suck

They are like Pulse-lasers but worse, at least pulse-lasers have the alpha. But the X-Pulses don't have the DPS and sustain to offset the stare-down.

I think they are intended to be like laser machine-guns, that you don't really have commit, that you can just get in and do damage and get out. But that is it, it's not powerful enough to offset the basic laser-vomit that you maximize outgoing damage and minimize incoming damage.

If they were to fix the X-Pulses, I'd rather they just make it straight up machine-guns that build heat, instead of just almost-like MGs.

> Binary Lasers

Oh boy, Clanners got the boot on this one. I'd say it's HLL of the IS, but it straight up has better duration than Clan ERLL. But that tonnage difference, I think I'd rather have it + duration and + damage, to make it even more damage/ton efficient, close to the philosophy of HLL, as a higher risk/reward.

> Hyper Assault Gauss

Specifically the 40s, into HAG-80s, yikes. I think the most efficient ones are the 30s though.

I don't like the spread. Yeah the amount of damage is devastating, but the way I see it, it's like the Clan UACs where it's already spread by the volley fire, it's already between 4 to 8 shots, volley delay the same as UAC20s at 0.11s, so that is between 0.33s to 0.77s firing duration.

Combine that with the target-leading and spread, just hurts the weapon so much at long-range use. As I'm watching people like Sean Lang, the HAGs looks like it's awful because of it, it'd rather drop the velocity down to 1500 like HGR if it means no spread.

As devastating as 20 to 40 damage are, that is 0.33 to 0.77s of duration, if from a distance an opponent can focus it to a single component, at that point I think it's just the target's fault.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 29 August 2023 - 10:56 PM.

[Curccu]

Yeah X-pulses need more DPS 30-40% more than normal pulses and they should be useful

BLC weight and size vs cERLL and HLL.... clans should just stfu .

Hags would be stupid OP if they'd lose the spread.

[LordNothing]

something to play with, but i only messed with them a couple days and got bored. hags are fun, xpulse is fun, and blazers are op, and i dont think there has been a point release yet.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 August 2023 - 04:11 AM.

[martian]

The6thMessenger, on 29 August 2023 - 10:48 PM, said:

How's The New Weapons?

There is the entire thread about the new weapons: You And The New Weapons

[KursedVixen]

Curccu, on 29 August 2023 - 11:45 PM, said:

Yeah X-pulses need more DPS 30-40% more than normal pulses and they should be useful

BLC weight and size vs cERLL and HLL.... clans should just stfu .

Hags would be stupid OP if they'd lose the spread.

I hope they dont' change the hags at all they are fine their spread is good enough to keep them from being sniper weapons

BLC needs it's GH fixed

X-pulse will need reducition in fire rate to justify more damage. or just make them like they are IN TT longer range Pulse.

Edited by KursedVixen, 30 August 2023 - 05:10 AM.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 05:10 AM, said:

X-pulse will need reducition in fire rate to justify more damage. or just make them like they are IN TT longer range Pulse.

No they don't. Fire rate is irrelevant as they are DPS weapons like MG that require facetime. Nobody except you? wants more sniping weapons.

[pbiggz]

The general feeling is Blazers are the best of the bunch; even with the HSL adjustment coming up (it was set to 3 in error) they'll be good, and even with that HSL error, its rarely worth it to fire more than 2 at a time.

HAGs i think are perfect. Some people seem to think they're broken and I think thats just because they've grown used to not having to deal with clan ballistics.

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 05:10 AM, said:

X-pulse will need reducition in fire rate to justify more damage. or just make them like they are IN TT longer range Pulse.

X pulses are anemic, and you have a clan victim complex. They need buffs, full stop. No tradeoffs here. And you really need to stop muttering about cooldowns, its been like 2 weeks. The mere existence of IS weapons that could theoretically kill you is not proof that the clans are getting shafted.

Edited by pbiggz, 30 August 2023 - 05:53 AM.

[Bud Crue]

In short:

X-pulse suck. The mediums and smalls can be kinda viable en mass, but even then, just about anything else is better. They are all just too much face time.

Binary Lasers are pretty awesome. When they fix the HSL issue they might get a bit of kick back, but I doubt it. That one ton savings for what is essentially 2 large lasers lets an awful lot of mechs hit significantly harder than they used to.

Hags are great for those that can manage the charge up.

Over all, between Hags and Binaries I feel like these weapons have increased peak and poke style play to a new extreme.

[foamyesque]

pbiggz, on 30 August 2023 - 05:52 AM, said:

HAGs i think are perfect. Some people seem to think they're broken and I think thats just because they've grown used to not having to deal with clan ballistics.

Eh, I used clan ballistics reasonably often. They're not bad, what with, you know, still being Clantech. The multiple-pellets thing on the heavy ACs is annoying but on the other hand, they're still more compact (bar the standard AC/2, because the clan standard AC/2 is technically an LBX2 firing solid shot) and lighter than Sphere ones and still get to be mounted on Clan chassis with the compact internals and Clan XLs. So you can bring quite a lot of weight of fire.

HAGs, however, are a major uptick over prior Clan heavy ballistics.

HAG20 is a drop-in replacement for a cUAC/10 that gets you the same damage per trigger pull with zero chance of jam at longer range with better velocity and ammo efficiency. You do lose the snapshot, which hurts when dealing with poptarts or fast peekers, but otherwise it's basically all upside.

HAG30s are nearly drop-in replacements for cGauss, where you trade slot count, heat, and precision (and one ton, but..) for double the damage and much better ammo efficiency (which claws back the tonnage disadvantage). You only need half your pellets to hit the same component to get the same sniping power as a cGauss, and the rest are gravy. And then, as range tightens, that damage advantage tells more and more strongly.

HAG40s I'm more mixed about. They're big and have a punishing HSL that makes firing them a bit tricky. If you keep 'em sync'd the ghost heat adds up quickly, but if you stagger fire, you spread the alpha out (which sort of defeats the point of doing 2x 40s) and it impacts your cycling for the next shot, adding a bunch of mental overhead.

Edited by foamyesque, 30 August 2023 - 04:20 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Curccu, on 30 August 2023 - 05:41 AM, said:

No they don't. Fire rate is irrelevant as they are DPS weapons like MG that require facetime. Nobody except you? wants more sniping weapons.

actually the whole cauldron want sniper weapons...

[The6thMessenger]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

actually the whole cauldron want sniper weapons...

Yeah, I figure the comps think like comps.

But if they removed HAG spread, I'd be something I agree on.

[Weeny Machine]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 05:10 AM, said:

I hope they dont' change the hags at all they are fine their spread is good enough to keep them from being sniper weapons


X-pulse will need reducition in fire rate to justify more damage. or just make them like they are IN TT longer range Pulse.

You are joking about HGs? I see hardly any other ballistics but those anymore. Sounds not balanced to me at all...

X-Pulse are serious crap. I mean, despite they are new no one plays them.

If those two things are no indicators, I don't know what.

[VaelophisNyx]

The6thMessenger, on 29 August 2023 - 10:48 PM, said:

> Hyper Assault Gauss

Specifically the 40s, into HAG-80s, yikes. I think the most efficient ones are the 30s though.

I don't like the spread. Yeah the amount of damage is devastating, but the way I see it, it's like the Clan UACs where it's already spread by the volley fire, it's already between 4 to 8 shots, volley delay the same as UAC20s at 0.11s, so that is between 0.33s to 0.77s firing duration.

Combine that with the target-leading and spread, just hurts the weapon so much at long-range use. As I'm watching people like Sean Lang, the HAGs looks like it's awful because of it, it'd rather drop the velocity down to 1500 like HGR if it means no spread.

As devastating as 20 to 40 damage are, that is 0.33 to 0.77s of duration, if from a distance an opponent can focus it to a single component, at that point I think it's just the target's fault.

Yes the spread is the point, they SHOULD NOT be capable of long range use, and already barely have any spread as is

[Feezou]

X-pulses flat out suck. Reward is not worth the facetime commitment.

Once binaries have their intended ghost heat, I don’t see them as particularly game changing. You can run laservom on IS mechs with less hardpoints, but I often see the better IS laservom setups opting for LPLs over LL for the dph and duration.

HAGs are pretty busted IMO, and either need lower velocity (gauss weapon so don’t know it’s appropriate) or they need to fire their burst slower. Extra spread might be needed too. I find them very oppressive, especially on poptarts.

[pbiggz]

Weeny Machine, on 30 August 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

You are joking about HGs? I see hardly any other ballistics but those anymore. Sounds not balanced to me at all...

X-Pulse are serious crap. I mean, despite they are new no one plays them.

If those two things are no indicators, I don't know what.

Remember they're new toys. People are coming back to test them out so you're gonna see a lot more of them.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

actually the whole cauldron want sniper weapons...

I whole cauldron would want HAG to be good snipe weapon it would be good snipe weapon?

Weeny Machine, on 30 August 2023 - 01:54 PM, said:

Number crunching doesn't tell the whole story anyway.

Mech A with HGs: Pumps out alpha and twists while moving back and hunkers into cover with his mates nearby (doesn't matter that much if they are close because as long as they have los, he can get cover fire from half across the map anyway due to laser and HG spam)

Mech B: Fires back with his x-pulse array doing some measly damage spraying shots all over the twisting mech....Mech A is back in cover.

Point is: Uptime is something precious which you simply often don't have in long range dominated peek-a-boo warrior. Theoretical dps doesn't cover that. You want preferably focused damage anway.
Peek-a-booing and silly ranges are the reasons why DPS weapons suck in this game (I cannot remember when I have seen a regular AC5). You also hardly see rotaries anymore - especially since HGs came out everybody plays that. And the king of suckage dps weapons are x-pulse dps with their high king of suckage x-pulse large lasers for 7t, not even 500ish range and I think it were 1.6 dmg / 0.25 sec

Yep like I wrote in this or some thread that is almost identical (we got few of these going on right now) DPS and DPH isn't good enough on XPLs yet, but if they get buffed decently I can see smaller mechs using them... again not for trading but pushing... having longer engagements.

But will see if they get strong enough buff in next patch or in future.

Edited by Curccu, 30 August 2023 - 08:57 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Curccu, on 30 August 2023 - 08:57 PM, said:

I whole cauldron would want HAG to be good snipe weapon it would be good snipe weapon?



Yep like I wrote in this or some thread that is almost identical (we got few of these going on right now) DPS and DPH isn't good enough on XPLs yet, but if they get buffed decently I can see smaller mechs using them... again not for trading but pushing... having longer engagements.

But will see if they get strong enough buff in next patch or in future.

And as I said in other threads: I doubt X-pulse lasers get a decent buff. Simply because a good dps weapon could have the effect of shaking up the sniping&camping and laser vomit meta and since these guys are 1. very vocal 2. sit in the Cauldron you won't have that or it will be nerfed soon after again because they crying will be legendary as soon as a mech kills a camping Dire turret...and if this mech is a light mech...oh lord, save us all...

[RabidBeagles]

I wouldn't know. I don't like spending c-bills so am waiting for them to pop up in a supply cache.

Edited by RabidBeagles, 30 August 2023 - 11:30 PM.

[Curccu]

RabidBeagles, on 30 August 2023 - 11:16 PM, said:

I wouldn't know. I don't like spending c-bills so am waiting for them to pop up in a supply cache.

You are assuming someone is going to add those weapons to be available from supply caches...

[RabidBeagles]

Curccu, on 31 August 2023 - 12:01 AM, said:

You are assuming someone is going to add those weapons to be available from supply caches...

Am hoping, yeah. Recently opened 17 and didn't get any of the new stuff.