29 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

Athom83, on 25 September 2023 - 11:53 AM, said:

	Damage	Heat	Cooldown	Shots/s	DPS	HPS
RAC/2 (current)	0.9	0.27	0.137	7.28	6.55	2
RAC/2 (new)	1	0.5	0.111	9	9	4.5
RAC/5 (current)	1.5	0.45	0.137	7.28	10.91	3.25
RAC/5 (new)	2.5	0.9	0.23	5.5	13.75	4.95
AC/2 (comparison)	2	0.5	0.72	1.4	2.78	0.69
RAC/2 (TT comparison)	2	0.5 (1*)	0.119	8.4	16.8	4.2 (8.4*)
RAC/5 (TT comparison)	5	1.1 (1*)	0.233	4.3	21.5	4.73 (4.3*)

*TT heat value

Overall RACs definitely need to be tuned up in DPS, but at the same time I think they need a much larger investment in terms of ammo and heat sinks in order to keep them running. This is primarily to keep the AC and Ultra 2s and 5s viable as cold running DPS as otherwise there's no point in running them over massive RAC brrrrt.

I agree with the front-loading of damage, as in the increase of damage and the corresponding increase in heat and reduction of the ammo.

I still don't like the long jam disspation/duration though, justifying the redlining of the weapon.

Athom83, on 25 September 2023 - 11:53 AM, said:

Basically just turn them into HAGs.

You mean with the charge-up and everything? Yet here I thought, HAGs could instead be turned into the RACs.

But anyways, I'd rather they don't become just another peekaboo-oriented weapon, but kind of bad at it.

[East Indy]

Moldur, on 17 September 2023 - 06:11 AM, said:

I think the point trying to made is that even if that is where people gravitate, if we put more limits on the tools to do so, then we get a more interesting game.

...

The perfect weapon in MWO is an instantaneous 1hk with low heat and high range, a weapon of ultimate convenience. The players will try to make it so, but that doesn't mean we should balance weapons toward that. The inconvenience pushed onto the player by trying to use the tools available to them is part of the game.

And the problem with this is that it contradicts the theme of the IP. People look at MW/BT and come expecting deliberately paced exchanges, largely in line-of-sight, and instead get the same old community obsessed with instant kills or strafing out from behind rocks to fire before hiding again.

A developer with brains and confidence would commit to a game showcasing MW/BT's values of endurance and persistence in equal exchanges over twitch or contrived advantages that favor narrow play choices. I mean, they'd certainly sell to a bigger audience that way.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 25 September 2023 - 02:08 PM, said:

ease of use should count against a weapon in the balance formula. its not something you should normalize.

That is definitely true, but that's why anything that spreads damage across space and/or time should be compensated with more damage potentialy.

That said, it all comes down to risk vs reward. Anything that swings too wildly against that balance is typically not very fun to play. See most projectile weapons from MW5 like the volleyball that the AC20 launches.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Here is my question, why do we need a jamming mechanic at all, why not let heat do its thing? I guess the question really comes down to what is the jamming mechanic trying to solve? A hard cap seems only necessary if the weapon is super heat efficient which they aren't, they are about on par with UACs and HAGs which seems about right. Yes they require more face time but they also require lower tonnage investment (both RACs are only one ton more than their UAC counterparts).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 September 2023 - 08:33 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 September 2023 - 08:31 PM, said:

Here is my question, why do we need a jamming mechanic at all, why not let heat do its thing? I guess the question really comes down to what is the jamming mechanic trying to solve? A hard cap seems only necessary if the weapon is super heat efficient which they aren't, they are about on par with UACs and HAGs which seems about right. Yes they require more face time but they also require lower tonnage investment (both RACs are only one ton more than their UAC counterparts).

I figure, same reason why do we need Gauss Charge on HAGs -- flavor, while making it harder as a result.

Effectively, at least at what PGI implemented is that the RACs are supposed to be the stare-down weapons, and based on the Redlining mechanic, it's supposed to be be fired pretty much the entire time YET jam at the worst possible moment.

Why in the ever living **** it has to work like that? PGI logic, that's why.

[Necroconvict]

.... in this rework.. can the screen shake/ screen blinding be reduced? Getting spammed with racs is bad enough, but not being able to see sucks.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 25 September 2023 - 11:05 PM, said:

I figure, same reason why do we need Gauss Charge on HAGs -- flavor, while making it harder as a result.

Gauss makes more sense than the others because they are effectively in the same boat as MGs in that they circumvent the heat system almost completely. If Gauss generated more heat like the HAGs do I don't know that the limit would honestly be necessary (as ghost heat would just kick in then).

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 September 2023 - 08:28 AM, said:

Gauss makes more sense than the others because they are effectively in the same boat as MGs in that they circumvent the heat system almost completely. If Gauss generated more heat like the HAGs do I don't know that the limit would honestly be necessary (as ghost heat would just kick in then).

If that is the case, walking back with your logic. I don't see why HAG has the charge-up if that is the case. They are pretty just as hot as ACs go.

It's not something that can effectively replace a Gauss in a Gauss-Vomit.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 26 September 2023 - 02:00 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The6thMessenger, on 26 September 2023 - 01:59 PM, said:

If that is the case, walking back with your logic. I don't see why HAG has the charge-up if that is the case. They are pretty just as hot as ACs go.

It's not something that can effectively replace a Gauss in a Gauss-Vomit.

Sorry, I was talking just about the hard cap on how many Gauss you can charge up at any single time, not the charge-up mechanic.

[The6thMessenger]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 September 2023 - 02:31 PM, said:

Sorry, I was talking just about the hard cap on how many Gauss you can charge up at any single time, not the charge-up mechanic.

Yeah, fair. Now that I think about it, taking out the Gauss Charge -- like I wanted, means that it could be fired for more than 2, which is probably the point.

But what I would prefer still stand, return the interval to 0.11s, but nerf velocity to 1500 instead.