6 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

i posted this in the heatsink thread and figured it deserved its own thread. trying to come up with a way where using dhs with small engines doesnt eat all your space. though i do agree with the general sentiment that giving lights free heat sinks is a bad idea. i do agree that giving light mechs a few more build options, while also making a few useless engines useful, would be good for the grossly disused weight class. there are several engines where an engine upgrade only costs you cbills and not extra tonnage, therefore these engines are deadzoned. the fix is to tweak rounding to 0.25t intervals whenever possible. this only touches dead equimpent that rots in your inventory.

anyway here is what i was thinking wrt engine weights:

Engine Rating	STD Weight	STD Tweak	LFE Weight	LFE Tweak	XL Weight	XL Tweak
60	-2.50	-2.50	--	--	--	--
100	1.00	1.00	0.50	0.50	0.50	0.50
105	2.50	2.25	2.00	1.00	1.00	0.00*
110	2.50	2.50	2.00	1.25	1.00	0.25*
115	3.00	2.50	2.00	1.50	1.00	0.50
120	3.00	2.75	2.00	1.75	1.00	0.75
125	4.00	4.00	3.00	3.00	2.00	2.00
130	4.50	4.25	3.50	3.25	2.50	1.75
135	4.50	4.50	3.50	3.50	2.50	2.00
140	5.00	4.75	4.00	3.75	2.50	2.25
145	5.00	5.00	4.00	4.00	2.50	2.50
150	6.50	6.25	5.50	4.50	4.00	3.00
155	6.50	6.50	5.50	4.75	4.00	3.25
160	7.00	6.50	5.50	5.00	4.00	3.50
165	7.00	6.75	5.50	5.25	4.00	3.75
170	7.00	7.00	5.50	5.50	4.00	4.00
175	9.00	8.75	7.50	7.25	5.50	5.25
180	9.00	9.00	7.50	7.50	5.50	5.50
185	9.50	9.25	8.00	7.50	6.00	5.50
190	9.50	9.50	8.00	7.75	6.00	5.75
195	10.00	10.00	8.00	8.00	6.00	6.00
200	11.50	11.50	9.50	9.50	7.50	7.50
205	12.50	12.50	10.50	10.50	8.50	8.25
210	13.00	13.00	11.00	11.00	8.50	8.50
215	13.50	13.50	11.50	11.00	9.00	8.50
220	14.00	13.75	11.50	11.25	9.00	8.75
225	15.00	15.00	12.50	12.50	10.00	10.00
230	15.50	15.50	13.00	13.00	10.50	10.25
235	16.00	16.00	13.50	13.50	10.50	10.50
240	16.50	16.50	14.00	13.75	11.00	10.75
245	17.00	17.00	14.00	14.00	11.00	11.00
250	18.50	18.50	15.50	15.50	12.50	12.25
255	19.00	19.00	16.00	16.00	12.50	12.50
260	19.50	19.50	16.50	16.25	13.00	12.75
265	20.00	20.00	16.50	16.50	13.00	13.00
270	20.50	20.50	17.00	17.00	13.50	13.50
275	21.50	21.50	18.00	17.75	14.00	13.75
280	22.00	22.00	18.00	18.00	14.00	14.00
285	22.50	22.50	18.50	18.50	14.50	14.50
290	23.50	23.50	19.50	19.25	15.00	14.75
295	24.00	24.00	19.50	19.50	15.00	15.00

underlined values are deadzoned engines. i also have original values for comparison next to the tweaked value. i simply used the weight of the next biggest engine -0.25, and -1 if the next rating up gives you an extra internal sink in bottom to top order. this only modifies deadzoned engines, not engines that are actually worth using, though in some cases you could get better results if you did. the stared values are lighter than a lower rated engine, in which case just use the same weight. there really isn't much you can do there. it also reintroduces a few new deadzones though not as many as before.

i couldn't figure out how the original engine weights were calculated, i only found math to convert cbt values to the ones used in mwo, so i just based it off existing mwo values. you might get better results going back to basics and figure everything for 0.25 rounding (perhaps including quarter ton rounding of gyro weights), but this method has little impact on balance other than making the dead engines useful. and giving light mechs an option to shave off some speed for small amounts of tonnage. it doesnt solve the heatsink space problem, perhaps better heat quirks for energy weapons or shs quirks are in order for that purpose.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 September 2023 - 08:29 PM.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Even past the dead zones, the top end of the scale could use some tweaking too - after engine desync it barely feels worthwhile to equip anything past 325 unless you really need more room for heatsinks. Doubly so for standard engines, and lord help us all if Compact Engines ever become a thing, especially since we'd be missing the main benefit (harder to crit out and thus lasts longer).

[LordNothing]

try as i might i couldnt find the original numbers or formula or id have posted a full redux. intmath is fine and dandy for a dice game from the '80s, or a computer from the '70s. but we can use float now. maintain the intent without the rounding errors.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 September 2023 - 01:10 AM.

[Curccu]

Hauptmann Keg Steiner, on 23 September 2023 - 12:33 AM, said:

Even past the dead zones, the top end of the scale could use some tweaking too - after engine desync it barely feels worthwhile to equip anything past 325 unless you really need more room for heatsinks. Doubly so for standard engines, and lord help us all if Compact Engines ever become a thing, especially since we'd be missing the main benefit (harder to crit out and thus lasts longer).

Many assault mech that can use XL (all clan and some IS) are using engines up to 375 in my builds.
Weight starts to become stupid from 380 ->

[Meep Meep]

Engines definitely need a refresh to weed out all the deadweight and make all of them viable.

[TheCaptainJZ]

In today's game, standard engines aren't commonly used. It might not be a bad idea to create an extra perk to running them, or decrease their weight to give them purpose other than "I must because of my torso ballistics build."

[LordNothing]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 September 2023 - 04:16 PM, said:

In today's game, standard engines aren't commonly used. It might not be a bad idea to create an extra perk to running them, or decrease their weight to give them purpose other than "I must because of my torso ballistics build."

i know that, i was cleaning out my inventory yesterday and i found out i was sitting on 30 std300 engines and a surplus of other sizes as well. there are situations where std is better, especially on some assaults.

std is a good place to start because other engines weights are derived from the std engines. lfe is 3/4 tonnage and xl is 1/2, though im not sure if that is before or after gyro, cockpit and heatsinks are accounted for.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 September 2023 - 06:54 PM.