40 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 October 2023 - 01:19 PM, said:

I think it would probably make more difference in a mech game due to the much larger health pools involved?

Maybe, I'm not saying copy CS exactly, but it should be learned from that utility is important for the mechanics of closing the gap. It has way more impact than destructible terrain IMO because cover should matter (that's part of what makes the game tactical).

Like in another thread though, map design plays heavily into this as well to help weaken positions that are too strong as well (*cough* Alpine Peaks single peak *cough*).

Especially since CS is probably the most related shooter, being no-respawn, no heals, slower pace (compared to some other shooters), and considered the most tactical (given that whole "thinking man's shooter" tag that MWO had early on ).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 October 2023 - 01:26 PM.

[Ihlrath]

Mech combat isn't supposed to be one shot and done. It was never meant to be. It's meant to be a slog fest where combat isn't over in .02 seconds because someone in the blue flashlight brigade shoots you with 8 ERLL's from 1200 meters. The 'balance' in the game is an abomination to actual mechwarrior but... no other real choice for Mechwarrior content so here we are having to deal with it.

[Novakaine]

Ihlrath, on 10 October 2023 - 10:38 AM, said:

Mech combat isn't supposed to be one shot and done. It was never meant to be. It's meant to be a slog fest where combat isn't over in .02 seconds because someone in the blue flashlight brigade shoots you with 8 ERLL's from 1200 meters. The 'balance' in the game is an abomination to actual mechwarrior but... no other real choice for Mechwarrior content so here we are having to deal with it.

Thanks I'm stealing this one - Blue Flashlight Brigade

[Samziel]

Ihlrath, on 10 October 2023 - 10:38 AM, said:

Mech combat isn't supposed to be one shot and done. It was never meant to be. It's meant to be a slog fest where combat isn't over in .02 seconds because someone in the blue flashlight brigade shoots you with 8 ERLL's from 1200 meters. The 'balance' in the game is an abomination to actual mechwarrior but... no other real choice for Mechwarrior content so here we are having to deal with it.

IIRC MWO has already doubled the armor values and nerfed possible damage combos hard with the introduction of ghost heat and large scale nerfs to clantech. Lorewise (as I understand it) even a lone PPC is seen as dangerous weapon because the mechs are more fragile than in this game.

I don't have experience on table top but I guess turns, dicerolls and BV keeps fights relatively balanced.

But I don't really get where your true Mechwarrior experience comes from. Even older games allowed much bigger weapon boating that could cripple enemies in single alphas. And lorewise Dire shooting 8 cERLLs is definitely more viable than in this game.

Not defending snipers with this, just wondering the point. But I do think a PVP game needs a higher TTK. It's not fun to die right away in a game without respawn.

Edited by Samziel, 10 October 2023 - 09:43 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Samziel, on 10 October 2023 - 09:26 PM, said:

IIRC MWO has already doubled the armor values and nerfed possible damage combos hard with the introduction of ghost heat and large scale nerfs to clantech. Lorewise (as I understand it) even a lone PPC is seen as dangerous weapon because the mechs are more fragile than in this game.

And mechs STILL have a lot of armor quirks.

The issue comes to pin-point accuracy. In TT, things are random, but in here you can focus a face-meltingly high alpha at the CT fairly easy. So in practice, the TTK would be even shorter.

Funnily enough, is the power creep. Alpha is getting higher and higher, so armor is getting higher and higher.

[Samziel]

The6thMessenger, on 10 October 2023 - 10:37 PM, said:

And mechs STILL have a lot of armor quirks.

The issue comes to pin-point accuracy. In TT, things are random, but in here you can focus a face-meltingly high alpha at the CT fairly easy. So in practice, the TTK would be even shorter.

Funnily enough, is the power creep. Alpha is getting higher and higher, so armor is getting higher and higher.

Yeah. In lore piloting a mech is actually really dangerous if the enemy can aim. And the targeting computers actually do the job for you. Lots of mechs have bracket builds for all situations but a dedicated sniper can absolutely wreck enemies from distance.

[Asylum Choir]

Novakaine, on 08 October 2023 - 08:34 AM, said:

As long as the Blue Flashlight Gang has control this will be the state of the game.
Personal get a Creal or a Scaleshot and go hunt them down I say.
Time to make them an endangered species.

Me and my friend often do that, a pair of craels or my juggernaut/war emu dps builds with his craels.
It's VERY satisfying to chew them up, often I'll leg them strip them of weps and then leave them. Especially if they are assaults.
The sniper fans can be countered, there is counter play but lord is it tedious. Along with those same sniper guys know full well others are taking their share of the damage.
It's very self centered way to play.

[Dr Wubs]

kalashnikity, on 08 October 2023 - 09:09 PM, said:

You just have to accept the situation you get dropped into, and work with it. In real life, wars/fights are not fair. There will never be a "fair" game, and rarely will both sides be balanced with players of equal skill or mech builds, or tonnage. Adapt and overcome, or die. That is part of what makes this game fun. If you want to make a difference, well, it's a team game, communicate more. That doesn't always work, often times literally nobody will communicate, or maybe only one or two, but sometimes that makes all the difference.

That would be true if there weren't a group of players 'fixing' the game by shaping it according to their play style.

[ThreeStooges]

Dr Wubs, on 12 October 2023 - 12:35 PM, said:

That would be true if there weren't a group of players 'fixing' the game by shaping it according to their play style.

I don't play their style. I'll slap flamers and lrms on an atlass, run srm 2s only cptl-a1s, mg only rvn-2xs and so on. The matches always have a brawl at the end. Cycle though the enemy and go after the ones shot up the most and you'll always die with a kill to your credit. Invest in target info and sensor range and you can find out your red rum red rum target that much faster. Until pgi makes er lls the only weapon in the game I say **** any one else's "style." I'll dam well use any weapon combination I want.

[Vieterihiiri]

Since you cannot rely on your teammates to do anything else except die, long range sniping is very tempting. Except when you get a **** map like the city.

[Mechsniper]

Multiple issues here. Here are 2 big ones.
#1
4 Man premade units of tier one players pug stomping (mostly via long range "sniping" and "flanking".) I put it in quotes, because all of their flanking/sniping is to pad their score, usually at the cost of the team's armor and assaults not in their group. Not to the advantage of the team. They will burn you and the whole team to get their score up and laugh at you when you complain. They think they are gods gift to this game, but they are a plague as this is a TEAM game. They are not part of your team even though they are on your side. Make a 4 man drop wait until another 4 man is in que. It will definitely square off the advantage.
#2
That grouped laser fire will indeed pick off noobs that do not know not to peek and trade yet, if they don't at least have parity in snipers on their side. 4 mechs with 6ERLL or HVYLL will delete 3 or 4 players who don't know better if they don't listen to the experienced guys.
Moving in and killing the other guys on the enemy team quickly as possible is your only chance vs these premades. If you are good, you can try to quarter the pie from cover and take on one at a time. That requires good cover, which PGI has not provided a lot of places.

Last: De nerf the gauss rifle for goodness sake. Get rid of the charge up(at least for regular and clan gauss, HAG, maybe not?)! Let assaults delete those ******** light pilots whom currently have immunity from assaults due to the gauss charge. They can time the charge up and avoid being shot. The gauss is the biggest threat to a light. It never should have been nerfed to allow a frikin locust to be an easy button vs assaults.

[ThreeStooges]

Mechsniper, on 16 October 2023 - 03:01 PM, said:

Multiple issues here. Here are 2 big ones.

Last: De nerf the gauss rifle for goodness sake. Get rid of the charge up(at least for regular and clan gauss, HAG, maybe not?)! Let assaults delete those ******** light pilots whom currently have immunity from assaults due to the gauss charge. They can time the charge up and avoid being shot. The gauss is the biggest threat to a light. It never should have been nerfed to allow a frikin locust to be an easy button vs assaults.

Thanks for the laugh. My lights rarely die to guass. Simply enough most assults can't aim and hit my 110 plus light with it unless I run in a straight line or one gets the time to aim as I strafe a different assult. What kills my lights the most are lasers. If lcts were easy mode you yourself would be using them and not an 100 ton slug.

The greatest threat to a light is some one who can hold lasers on the ct.

[SolCrusher]

Kynesis, on 07 October 2023 - 04:50 PM, said:

I'm really tired of games utterly dominated by sniping and laser vom. It's not interesting, it's not engaging, it bypasses most of the game's features - halving mechs & TTK's measured in "LOLs" and "SIT DOWN!".
I can't count the number of times that I've seen lower tier players casually and thoughtlessly sliced and diced by people with meta builds, shooting from unassailable positions far beyond most weapon ranges, not to mention organised teams snowballing wins by effortlessly picking off a few low tier players, thanks to the magic of soup queue.

There's nothing I can do about the elites incandescent contempt for everyone else. Go ahead and dogpile me with "git gud", it only further illustrates the point.

I'm taking the time to write this post (and suffer the inevitable indignities that will be heaped upon me) in the vain hope that PGI attempt some consideration to just how one-sided and shallow the game has become.

Top tier players aren't the only people who play this game, even if they are the loudest voices.

Laser Reflective Armor should be added to the game. It would lower the damage of all energy based weapons, while increasing the damage of kinetic weapons.

[Curccu]

Mechsniper, on 16 October 2023 - 03:01 PM, said:

Last: De nerf the gauss rifle for goodness sake. Get rid of the charge up(at least for regular and clan gauss, HAG, maybe not?)! Let assaults delete those ******** light pilots whom currently have immunity from assaults due to the gauss charge. They can time the charge up and avoid being shot. The gauss is the biggest threat to a light. It never should have been nerfed to allow a frikin locust to be an easy button vs assaults.

LOL
If you cannot handle Gauss maybe use something like quad LB10X even potato should hit lights with that.

[Dr Cara Carcass]

MWO is the one game, where Snipers are the least effective in my whole games library.
In every other game a sniper is often 99% deadly even when not hitting the head.

If you guys had any patience (those who complain about snipers).... all you guys had to do in these above given scenarios was wait a second and kill the ones alreaedy crippeled by your snipers. Instead, you walk around a corner which covers you from your friendly snipers, but not their snipers, die in 5 sconds before one can walk ove to help and then complain. Lean to read the f*****g Minimap.

And if your 4 man Orion LBx+srm brawler premade stops 300m away from a slow sniper because you are scared, thats your problem (hint this happens way to often)

Most of the time its about equal numbers of long rangers on both teams, which means i cant be that unfair.

[martian]

Mechsniper, on 16 October 2023 - 03:01 PM, said:

Last: De nerf the gauss rifle for goodness sake. Get rid of the charge up(at least for regular and clan gauss, HAG, maybe not?)! Let assaults delete those ******** light pilots whom currently have immunity from assaults due to the gauss charge. They can time the charge up and avoid being shot. The gauss is the biggest threat to a light. It never should have been nerfed to allow a frikin locust to be an easy button vs assaults.

1) You demand the most powerful and the most successful class of MWO 'Mechs (assault 'Mechs) to be boosted even further, while you think that the weakest class of MWO 'Mechs (light 'Mechs) should be nerfed even more.

2) Gauss Rifle is "the biggest threat to a light" as much as any other MWO weapon is "the biggest threat to a light". Because - you know - light 'Mechs are typically so fragile that many heavy and assault 'Mechs can cripple them or kill them outright with just one good alpha strike.

3) If you have problems with using Gauss Rifles, arm your 'Mech with some other weapon system that would be easier to use for you or train with Gauss Rifles more.

4) If you think that "frikin locust" is "easy button vs assaults", buy one in the Store and run it for some time. For example LCT-1E - even with quirks - carries less than 200 armor and runs some short ranged lasers. Your Fafnir - or what you usually ride - sports more than 700 armor and weapons that can hit the Locust on a few hundred metres. Note that six of seven Locust variants can not be equipped with ECM, so they shine on your assault 'Mech's radar.

[Nikushimi]

Ihlrath, on 10 October 2023 - 10:38 AM, said:

over in .02 seconds because someone in the blue flashlight brigade shoots you with 8 ERLL's from 1200 meters.

What mech are you encountering that can hold eight ERLL let alone alpha them without instantly exploding from ghost heat? (They would also be doing around 10% damage at 1200m)

[feeWAIVER]

Nikushimi, on 19 October 2023 - 05:30 PM, said:

What mech are you encountering that can hold eight ERLL let alone alpha them without instantly exploding from ghost heat? (They would also be doing around 10% damage at 1200m)

(1) EIGHT LARGE LASERS on a DIREWOLF!!! - Mechwarrior Online (Build & Gameplay) (MWO) - YouTube

[Jon Gotham]

Dr Cara Carcass, on 18 October 2023 - 11:08 AM, said:

MWO is the one game, where Snipers are the least effective in my whole games library.
In every other game a sniper is often 99% deadly even when not hitting the head.

If you guys had any patience (those who complain about snipers).... all you guys had to do in these above given scenarios was wait a second and kill the ones alreaedy crippeled by your snipers. Instead, you walk around a corner which covers you from your friendly snipers, but not their snipers, die in 5 sconds before one can walk ove to help and then complain. Lean to read the f*****g Minimap.

And if your 4 man Orion LBx+srm brawler premade stops 300m away from a slow sniper because you are scared, thats your problem (hint this happens way to often)

Most of the time its about equal numbers of long rangers on both teams, which means i cant be that unfair.

But we then have to play around those snipers and their playstyle.
Why should we?
It can be countered, but it's simply not fun to do so.

[Widowmaker1981]

Jon Gotham, on 19 October 2023 - 06:43 PM, said:

But we then have to play around those snipers and their playstyle.
Why should we?
It can be countered, but it's simply not fun to do so.

So what would you prefer? Ranged damage to be so weak you can just walk out into it without worry?