17 replies to this topic

[Richard Hazen]

So I'm fine tuning my Assassin and I know the difference is probably minuscule since I'm using small lasers and MRM 10s but is 4 SP of cooldown more important than 4 SP of laser duration? At first I thought it was laser duration since apparently 4 SP gives 15% laser duration reduction compared to 3% from the cooldown, but then I realised CD helps me fire more missiles to and they are probably my main source of damage, so perhaps its worth it, what do you think?

[LordNothing]

most vomit builds i do duration first, and cd if i have any nodes left after heat and survivability is taken care of.

[epikt]

Beam duration is not about damage output, but damage concentration: the shorter the beam, the easier it is to place all your damage on the same component.

edit: but since your "main" source of damage is your MRMs, I'd first place my 4 points in velocity.

Edited by epikt, 10 October 2023 - 08:33 AM.

[CFC Conky]

What is your main weapon? If it's MRMs then cd nodes are probably a better investment. You also have to consider how/if certain skill points amplify your mech's base quirks.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Curccu]

Laser duration gives you damage concentration, less face time with enemy and cooldown and if you are running 2xASRM6 and 5xSL those small lasers do almost half of your DPS.

One crazy idea.. try 2x Snubnose PPC with SRMs

edit: Oh MRM10s... then 5x Small lasers out dps your MRMs, maybe MRM20s? unless you insist running STD engine for some reason...

Edited by Curccu, 10 October 2023 - 09:03 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Specifically for the build the op listed I'd say cooldown and velocity first since the mrm are the main damage dealer and small lasers already have a short duration. With the new breakdown of the skill tree over the old way there really isn't a cut and paste build for slapping on mechs as you can finely tune it now.

[The6thMessenger]

Beam Duration > Heat Nodes > CD Nodes

That's my lot in the power tree. CD ain't as important, because it's for alphaing, not DPS.

[LordNothing]

i do like cd for ppfld weapons, like ppcs and heavy ballistics, to increase frequency of trades. but i mostly use it for ballistic or missile weapons.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 October 2023 - 02:00 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Both CD and Duration usage depend entirely on the weapon, as well as if those weapons have mech quirk bonuses.

Almost all lasers benefit more from both Duration and Cooldown, except pulses which cooldown is better, and X-pulse aren't worth using either nodes for.

MRM's, SRM's, Streaks, Lrm's, ATM's, only get bonuses from cooldown, so CD, range, heat, and Missile nodes should be considered when using them.

Cooldown in general is a DPS booster for almost all weapons, just remember that it makes heat management necessary investment as well. (Extra heatsinks, Heat cap, cool running) So that your sustained dps remains controllable.

[Void Angel]

Will Hawker, on 10 October 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

So I'm fine tuning my Assassin and I know the difference is probably minuscule since I'm using small lasers and MRM 10s but is 4 SP of cooldown more important than 4 SP of laser duration? At first I thought it was laser duration since apparently 4 SP gives 15% laser duration reduction compared to 3% from the cooldown, but then I realised CD helps me fire more missiles to and they are probably my main source of damage, so perhaps its worth it, what do you think?

Edit: reading is hard. I'm sorry, yes. Go for cooldown first while skilling up your 'mech. The lasers are a miniscule part of your damage; they're really only good for backup damage and intimidating other Lights. Go for cooldown first, and heat reduction only if you find that you're overheating too much - it depends on how many heat sinks you have supporting what size MRM. Regardless, while the following is still accurate, it's not really what you asked. +)

Duration is more important, generally. Both duration and cooldown increase your dps - but while cooldown gives a greater increase, duration reduces spread and allows you to poke and peek faster. That means you get more accurate damage and less incoming damage when you're trading (even with small lasers.)

In a more general sense, duration is obviously better for long-burn weapons like ER or Heavy lasers, but cooldown is a special case. If you are heat capped in your build, there is no reason to invest in cooldown nodes. Take this Bundle of Fun; it has a whopping 1.5 alphas till overheat (not atypical for alpha-damage builds,) so it's primarily limited in its damage outpoot by heat - or by its cooling rate, if you think of it that way. It's almost useless to invest in cooldown nodes for this kind of build. This Guy, on the other hand, can make a lot better use of cooldown nodes, while this Entirely Different 'Mech wants all the cooldown nodes and likely doesn't need to bother with heat reduction.

Although honestly, if you've only got 4 skill points left over in your build, put them into a point of radar deprivation, and improved consumables.

Edited by Void Angel, 10 October 2023 - 03:41 PM.

[Richard Hazen]

Thanks for the answers guys, I've gone with the cooldown. I dunno if my build is unconventional but it seems to work for me, I do use a standard engine, I just don't like going out if someone takes my side torsos. I have points in deprivation and consumables already, I don't have heat problems so I have no points in that, so it really just came down to maximising my damage out put.

[LordNothing]

the number of builds i have that's just lasers and mrm/srm. its pretty conventional, but conventional doesn't mean much anymore.

[Richard Hazen]

LordNothing, on 10 October 2023 - 06:11 PM, said:

the number of builds i have that's just lasers and mrm/srm. its pretty conventional, but conventional doesn't mean much anymore.

Was more in response to post about not having MRM 20s, my Griffin has them but its heavier weight. I use my assassin like a heavy skirmisher, so I have 4 small lasers which benefit from the mech quirks, a targetting computer 2 and two mrm 10s.

Edited by Will Hawker, 10 October 2023 - 07:32 PM.

[kalashnikity]

Cooldown and duration are both a direct boost to DPS, however the math shows Cooldown gives a much greater boost to DPS.

The math also shows duration has a greater effect on weapons with longer duration, like heavy lasers and Blazers, however the effect of duration on DPS is minimal.

Duration allows more concentrated dmg and allows you to get back behind cover faster, which is important.

If you want to maximize damage, you should take all the cooldown nodes, leaving duration nodes as secondary.

I always take maximum cooldown, and use duration only in the case of longer duration laser weapons, if at all.

[Widowmaker1981]

kalashnikity, on 10 October 2023 - 06:57 PM, said:

Cooldown and duration are both a direct boost to DPS, however the math shows Cooldown gives a much greater boost to DPS.

The math also shows duration has a greater effect on weapons with longer duration, like heavy lasers and Blazers, however the effect of duration on DPS is minimal.

Duration allows more concentrated dmg and allows you to get back behind cover faster, which is important.

If you want to maximize damage, you should take all the cooldown nodes, leaving duration nodes as secondary.

I always take maximum cooldown, and use duration only in the case of longer duration laser weapons, if at all.

FYI this isnt entirely accurate. Laser weapon cooldown starts once the beam is finished, so the cooldown is actually CD + Duration.

This is most noticeable with X-Pulse. They have a 0.25s CD and 0.25s duration by default, meaning they fire 2x per second. Duration and Cooldown skills give an identical boost to DPS for X-Pulse, and that actually makes the duration skills extremely valuable on an XPulse build (each duration node is worth 5 cooldown nodes in terms of DPS increase)

[kalashnikity]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 October 2023 - 07:03 AM, said:

FYI this isnt entirely accurate. Laser weapon cooldown starts once the beam is finished, so the cooldown is actually CD + Duration.

This is most noticeable with X-Pulse. They have a 0.25s CD and 0.25s duration by default, meaning they fire 2x per second. Duration and Cooldown skills give an identical boost to DPS for X-Pulse, and that actually makes the duration skills extremely valuable on an XPulse build (each duration node is worth 5 cooldown nodes in terms of DPS increase)

Good point on the x-pulse, where each percentage of duration and cooldown have identical effect.

[ThreeStooges]

I use both. Lights need as little exposure time as possible. Most the time I'm off fighting over lights trying to save the lrm assult's ***.