29 replies to this topic

[Tirralys]

I getcha now! xD I will have to watch for those kind of differences, I might accidentally overlook a good mech if I didn't know that. Thank you. I'll take another look and compare the numbers rather than just the quirks

[epikt]

Tirralys, on 15 October 2023 - 02:59 PM, said:

Quick edit though: I found two builds I like in the medium category, This Uziel https://mwo.nav-alph...aebad538_UZL-BE with 4x LPPC and 2x MRM/10, with the quirks to boot! I have not used LPPC before, but it does not appear to have a minimum range, so I thought that would be nice xD

Also found a similar Phoenix Hawk https://mwo.nav-alph...aebad538_UZL-BE but with 3x LPPC and 2x MRM/10, only its quirks are more about its systems than the weapons. The only thing I think I like this better for is the 7 extra speed but I think I like the Uziel better. I haven't gotten through all the medium mechs yet but those two really caught my eye

It links to the Belial both times, but I suppose you're talking of the Phoenix Hawk Roc.
Both are nice mechs, the PXH has a good cooldown quirk to compensate for the missing LPPC, but the Belial is indeed better.

Since you're interested in LPPCs, there are two other mechs coming to mind: the Panther Katana Kat (another hero!) and the Phoenix Hawk-1B.

[Tirralys]

Yes, I did mean to post the Phoenix Hawk Roc xD Thank you.

I was thinking about the Mix of both Medium and long range weapons that fit into the same mech. Now I know doing one thing really well is better than having a jack of all trades, but just speaking on the LPPC's, I can spread out the weapons across my mech's upper body, thus having 4x LPPC that equals 20 damage, rather than just one regular PPC that does 20 Damage, and if that arm (or whatever) gets blown up, you lose it all, whereas with the LPPC's you just lose a portion of damage output rather then everything in one go.

The MRM's though I thought would be cool, but as it seems to turn out, MRM's do not have lock on? Just a blind fire? I had an archer variant I decided to try something similar on (before I went and bought a whole new mech to do it) and MRM/20's don't seem to lock on at all? I may have to re-evaluate that choice xD But I still think the 4 or so x LPPC is a good idea overall for me

[Void Angel]

Ah, but boating LPPCs is doing just one thing, and their optimal range is similar to the MRMs - you just have to remember not to alpha them against deflection shots (targets moving side-to-side relative to your point of view.) And watch your heat, of course. But it's not a bad build just because it combines LPPCs and MRMs.

In fact... Here's my Shadowhawk Build. At first glance, it's a hodge-podge of different weapons, spread out across the 'mech (and I really do wish the energy mount was on the same side as the AC.) But what this 'mech is designed to do is provide mobile fire support against enemy 'mechs, particularly Heavies and Assaults. There is a certain charm to just Boating RACs, but my version doesn't have to stare at the enemy, and its firepower is more reliable than the RACs.

[Tirralys]

I was thinking about trying to place a bunch of Rotary's on one of my mechs, they are fun xD

The last three games I've played with an XL Engine, the opposing team ends up taking out either my right or left torso, which ends with my engine exploding xD Does the benefit of XL Engines outweigh the fact that you now have three different places that can end your existence?

Further, I noticed you only have one case on your leg - Does that cover your entire mech, or do you need one per limb with ammo in it?

[Void Angel]

It depends heavily on the 'Mech, and the role you're using it in. That's one of the reasons 'mech architecture is so important. There's a thread in here somewhere called "hitbox localization," where people have gone and drawn out the approximate borders of major 'mech components. The upshot of it is, some 'mechs have better luck with XLs than others. Shadow Hawks are pretty good with XLs, provided you torso twist and spread incoming damage - then there's the other end of the spectrum, with "oh, that's a nope-fish" being illustrated by the Stalker...

Stalkers (and similarly-shaped 'mechs like the Marauder) are very hard to kill from the front, because their frontal cross-section is so small, they basically just have to wiggle their nose at you to spread damage around. From the side, however, their side-torso is like a sail; it's actually almost impossible to miss it and still hit the 'mech. Nobody who expects to get shot at puts an XL on a Stalker.

Essentially, some 'mechs do better with XLs than others, but every time you put in an XL, you're trading durability for free tonnage. Same with Light Fusion Engines. Even Clan XLs, which require two destroyed torsos to stop working, still take the hefty heat and cooling capacity penalties from a destroyed side torso, so it's important to be aware of the trade-offs. If you find you're not surviving well enough, simply downgrade to an LFE.

PS: Cellular Ammunition Storage Equipment only affects the component it's installed in - I slapped that one in to protect the side torso from an ammo cookoff in the leg only because I had extra CASE sitting around, and heck, the slot was open so why not? There's only a 10% chance of ammunition exploding if it's critically hit.

[KursedVixen]

Tirralys, on 16 October 2023 - 05:50 PM, said:

I was thinking about trying to place a bunch of Rotary's on one of my mechs, they are fun xD

The last three games I've played with an XL Engine, the opposing team ends up taking out either my right or left torso, which ends with my engine exploding xD Does the benefit of XL Engines outweigh the fact that you now have three different places that can end your existence?

Further, I noticed you only have one case on your leg - Does that cover your entire mech, or do you need one per limb with ammo in it?

CLan XLs can loose one side torso like LFE Light fusion engines.... but clan XLs are much lighter than LFE or IS XLS because well... in lore their just better because the clan never blew up thier industrial bases in all out war...

[Horseman]

KursedVixen, on 17 October 2023 - 08:50 AM, said:

clan XLs are much lighter than LFE or IS XLS because well... in lore their just better because the clan never blew up thier industrial bases in all out war...

Wrong, Clan and IS XLs weigh the same.

As for IS LFEs, those were an attempt to recreate the more compact tech of Clan XLs with inferior materials.

[Tirralys]

Dang that's good to know. I can see why Clan stuff is so dang good xD And you are correct, I think the mechs I was trying out were all IS, so that explains that. At first I thought my ammo had exploded but then I realized a) it didn't say that and each time I was missing a torso part so it makes sense now.

But I did not know that there was only a 10% chance for ammo to get crit and explode. I was trying to figure out where to place CASE stuff in but now I know I really don't have to *****

Thank you all again! I'm probably going to try to get a bunch of Halloween loot bags to get 40ish MC so I can buy my mech xD Have fun everyone!

[Void Angel]

Clan technology is not, in MWO intended to be superior. In the tabletop game, they were flat-out superior, with the Inner Sphere gradually catching up and excelling them in certain areas - the Mary Sue Fascist Space Mongols lost their total technological edge, but developed and improved new technologies in different areas than the Inner Sphere. But since we are all competing against each other directly, Clantech's performance cannot, and should not be superior to the Inner Sphere - just different in focus.

For example, pop open MechDB in two windows, and look up a 'mech from each tech base - any 'mech, doesn't matter so long as they both have energy hardpoints - and consider the Large Pulse laser. The Inner Sphere version is heavier, and shorter-ranged, with significantly shorter (25%) burn time and better Damage Per Heat (12.5%) So, the Inner Sphere version loses out in ranged trading (prior to quirks,) but is more heat-efficient - and its damage is harder to spread.

Now, look at the firing characteristics of the ER Large Laser: the Clan version is substantially lighter, literally half the size, and has the same effective range as a fracking Gauss Rifle - with the same DPS as its Inner Sphere counterpart. The Inner Sphere version has a shorter burn time, too (18.5% faster than the cER,) but that hardly makes up for the difference.

And we haven't even talked about Clantech Double Heat Sinks and cooling efficiency yet! This is why you see so many IS 'mechs with giant quirks for various weapons, or for durability. This is a legacy of the Battletech tabletop game, and I don't think I'd want it any other way, even though it makes balance difficult. In general, Clantech is better at long-range poke fighting, and the Inner Sphere has better sustained firepower and close-in DPS. There are standout 'mechs from each tech base, and both tech bases are used in championship-level play.

PS: Gauss ammunition does not explode at all - however, the Gauss Rifle itself will explode, and has a 90% chance to do so if destroyed by a critical hit.

PPS: Critical hits are their own sub-topic, but in general what you need to know is that each piece of gear you put on a 'mech has a hidden "critical hitpoints" stat that is depleted by crits - which are rolled for whenever you take structure damage, including overheat. Crits that are rolled deal damage to a random component slot, and also 15% bonus damage to your structure (this is why machine guns and LB-X autocannons are so much more effective after a component's armor has been breached.)