80 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

You should not be able to AMS your way to tier 1. That is not going to make the game more fun for anyone when you get there, including yourself.


Cbill rewards only.

[KursedVixen]

Widowmaker1981, on 01 November 2023 - 05:23 AM, said:

AMS use should provide decent cbill rewards, but very very limted PSR, because AMS is passive and requires literally no skill to use and therefore its use shouldnt factor into how skillfull the system thinks you are.

same with LRms though but LRMs give PSR.

I personally think AMS should reward PSR at least enough in game to keep an = but not an up arrow and only if you shoot down say 300+ missiles.


Some people here seem to forget it is a team game and shooting down enemy missiles that would damage an ally is a team play what we have right now is preventing team play with AMS

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 November 2023 - 09:21 AM.

[foamyesque]

feeWAIVER, on 05 November 2023 - 08:31 AM, said:

You should not be able to AMS your way to tier 1. That is not going to make the game more fun for anyone when you get there, including yourself.

If someone's shooting down 2400 missiles per match on average for long enough to get to T1, then I'd say they earned their way there same as anyone else. And given how loudly people in T1 like to complain about LRMs, you'd think they'd be happier for more people with AMS to be around.

[HauptmanT]

You get better rewards for winning matches than losing. If LRMs are present on the enemy team, AMS negates their damage thus helping you win more matches, thus increasing both PSR and C-bill rewards. If no LRMs are present, you wasted 1.5 tons or more.

LRMs are far less prevelant than they once were, and even I actively avoid using them these days. However, when the match rotation does seem to include a few lermers playing while I am, I still pop onto a Kitfox or something just to ruin their fun for a few matches, because forcing them out of their Lurmboats is reward enough, when all the games after they start missing all their AC shots instead.

Always take AMS in every mech you can. Some mechs just cant... but most can. If everyone had their single AMS slot filled, that'd be like having 3 or 4 designated AMS giants in every match, and absolutely ruin all missile boats in every match. But... people think to themselves "nobody uses LRMs, so I dont need AMS" but then people notice, and take advantage, and whalla you have Lurm spam kick off again. and Back and forth it goes... so just keep the darned AMS.

You guys really dont want me to start using my Lurm boats again. I will ruin your games, laughing the whole time. "Make it rain!!! Muwhahahaha!!!"

Also, I'm totally fine with a c-bill reward for those 1000+ missiles destroyed games.

[RickySpanish]

HauptmanT, on 05 November 2023 - 04:48 PM, said:

You get better rewards for winning matches than losing. If LRMs are present on the enemy team, AMS negates their damage thus helping you win more matches, thus increasing both PSR and C-bill rewards. If no LRMs are present, you wasted 1.5 tons or more.

LRMs are far less prevelant than they once were, and even I actively avoid using them these days. However, when the match rotation does seem to include a few lermers playing while I am, I still pop onto a Kitfox or something just to ruin their fun for a few matches, because forcing them out of their Lurmboats is reward enough, when all the games after they start missing all their AC shots instead.

Always take AMS in every mech you can. Some mechs just cant... but most can. If everyone had their single AMS slot filled, that'd be like having 3 or 4 designated AMS giants in every match, and absolutely ruin all missile boats in every match. But... people think to themselves "nobody uses LRMs, so I dont need AMS" but then people notice, and take advantage, and whalla you have Lurm spam kick off again. and Back and forth it goes... so just keep the darned AMS.

You guys really dont want me to start using my Lurm boats again. I will ruin your games, laughing the whole time. "Make it rain!!! Muwhahahaha!!!"

Also, I'm totally fine with a c-bill reward for those 1000+ missiles destroyed games.

If my team mates get railed by LRMs, then they deserve to die and I hope they suffer. I'm not wasting 1.5 tons so that some twit that ignores cover and likes to stare at Ravens can live a bit longer.

[LordNothing]

feeWAIVER, on 05 November 2023 - 08:31 AM, said:

You should not be able to AMS your way to tier 1. That is not going to make the game more fun for anyone when you get there, including yourself.


Cbill rewards only.

im not even sure if thats possible given how little lerms are used in upper tier matches. and frankly i agree that ams should not score as high as it did. but im talking of reducing it down to 50% maybe even 25% of its original score rate so its not as effective as damage dealing. you aren't getting to t1 on ams alone.

[feeWAIVER]

LordNothing, on 05 November 2023 - 06:48 PM, said:

im not even sure if thats possible given how little lerms are used in upper tier matches. and frankly i agree that ams should not score as high as it did. but im talking of reducing it down to 50% maybe even 25% of its original score rate so its not as effective as damage dealing. you aren't getting to t1 on ams alone.

Ok let's talk about Tier 3.
If someone is unable to reach Tier 3, but then find they can be carried to T3 by AMS, then they don't belong there, and they are potentially taking the Tier 3 spot of someone who actually earned it.

Cbills Only.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 05 November 2023 - 08:23 AM, said:

read the part where i said aiming isnt the only skill in the game. you still have to position correctly to protect the team, and you still have to know where to be and when, situational awareness. these things are skills. so it does not take zero skill. i am also fine with scoring it at half the rate or less, or only scoring missiles that would have hit. they should be worth something, certainly you need to do other things to make your match score but to completely remove scoring was just as bad.

the unfuning continues.

No, 'following the herd' is not some special display of the piloting or positioning skill that would warrant some bonus piloting skill reward.

AMS is a zero-skill equipment. It works fully automatically right from the beginning of the game to the end of the mission.

KursedVixen, on 05 November 2023 - 09:16 AM, said:

same with LRms though but LRMs give PSR.I personally think AMS should reward PSR at least enough in game to keep an = but not an up arrow and only if you shoot down say 300+ missiles.

LRMs require some active player's participation. By contrast, AMS works even with your hands off the keyboard.

Thus, it makes sense that the LRM damage is counted towards the pilot skill rating, while the fully automatic AMS function is not a part of MS / PSR.

KursedVixen, on 05 November 2023 - 09:16 AM, said:

Some people here seem to forget it is a team game and shooting down enemy missiles that would damage an ally is a team play what we have right now is preventing team play with AMS

LOL What?

You can put AMS on any OmniMech that you own. Nobody and nothing is preventing it. It is just your personal decision if you invest in weapons, armor, cooling, speed or something else.

foamyesque, on 05 November 2023 - 09:42 AM, said:

If someone's shooting down 2400 missiles per match on average for long enough to get to T1, then I'd say they earned their way there same as anyone else.

The previous PSR version (in use 2015-2020) allowed players to claw their way to higher Tiers (Tier 1, if you wish) by the way of adding a few relatively undeserved MS / PSR points "on average for long enough to get to T1".

In the end, it did not work. The mid-2020 Tiers system reset with the new version of PSR has placed them in the most appropriate Tier, no matter how vocal they were with their claims that they "earned their way to T1 same as anyone else."

There is no reason to repeat the same error.

Carrying the fully automatic AMS to artificially inflate MS / PSR is no substitute for the actual piloting and gunnery skills.

I can imagine what would happen if the matchmaker would pit two teams of T1 players against each other: One team with the real elite players and the other team filled with the players that climbed to T1 because their 'Mech was equipped with AMS.

foamyesque, on 05 November 2023 - 09:42 AM, said:

And given how loudly people in T1 like to complain about LRMs, you'd think they'd be happier for more people with AMS to be around.

Could you post some links to such complaints? Specifically, to some posts where T1 players hint or suggest that "they'd be happier for more people with AMS to be around."

[LordNothing]

martian, on 06 November 2023 - 09:55 AM, said:

No, 'following the herd' is not some special display of the piloting or positioning skill that would warrant some bonus piloting skill reward.

follow? you need to be up front to farm missiles.

[martian]

LordNothing, on 06 November 2023 - 06:12 PM, said:

follow? you need to be up front to farm missiles.

Considering that the AMS range is quite good and that it can be extended, you can "farm missiles", as you said, even without some overt risking.

Still, the self-acting AMS requires zero skill and no pilot action, and thus it can not be used to farm MS / PSR points to inflate the pilot skill rating.

Some C-Bills reward would be acceptable, as it already has been suggested.

[Widowmaker1981]

foamyesque, on 05 November 2023 - 09:42 AM, said:

If someone's shooting down 2400 missiles per match on average for long enough to get to T1, then I'd say they earned their way there same as anyone else. And given how loudly people in T1 like to complain about LRMs, you'd think they'd be happier for more people with AMS to be around.

I have, quite literally, NEVER seen anyone complaining about LRMs in T1 games (aside from complaining that someone wasted their mech by putting LRMs on it)

AMS use should not result in someone being put with pilots who have more skill (aim better, react faster, more map knowledge, etc) and doing worse as a result. Going up tier is a PUNISHMENT in my opinion, as it makes good games (read: 1000+dmg multiple kills) much harder to achieve.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 06 November 2023 - 08:48 PM, said:

Considering that the AMS range is quite good and that it can be extended, you can "farm missiles", as you said, even without some overt risking.

Still, the self-acting AMS requires zero skill and no pilot action, and thus it can not be used to farm MS / PSR points to inflate the pilot skill rating.

Some C-Bills reward would be acceptable, as it already has been suggested.

Zero skill, yeah I'll put you into the radar dome of a Phalanx CWIS and make you shoot down every threat that comes at your ship, I'm sure your fellow sailors will line up to pin medal after medal on you....

There needs to be a point to AMS in the first place and for people like me C-bills aren't gonna cut it , while I agree it shouldn't tier you up It shouldn't penalize you for protecting your team from Missiles either....


So how about ams does give PSR but it's tier weighted so it can get you up to say tier3 maybe, but as the tiers get higher up in skill it gives much less PSR so by about up to tier 3 it only gives you at most a even PSR
Tier even threshold
tier 5 300 missiles
tier 4 500 missiles
tier 3 1000 missiles
tier 2 4000 missiles
tier 1 10000 missiles

But I have to ask how do you guys in tier one do the Missiles shot down challegnes???

Edited by KursedVixen, 07 November 2023 - 09:01 AM.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 07 November 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:

Zero skill, yeah I'll put you into the radar dome of a Phalanx CWIS and make you shoot down every threat that comes at your ship, I'm sure your fellow sailors will line up to pin medal after medal on you....

AMS in MechWarrior Online functions without any player action - no gunnery or piloting skill is required. So there is no reason why it should count towards the MS / Pilot Skill Rating.

KursedVixen, on 07 November 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:

There needs to be a point to AMS in the first place and for people like me C-bills aren't gonna cut it , while I agree it shouldn't tier you up It shouldn't penalize you for protecting your team from Missiles either....

Nobody penalizes you for using AMS.

You invest some tonnage in Anti-Missile System - you get better protection against missiles. You have got exactly what you paid for.

KursedVixen, on 07 November 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:

So how about ams does give PSR but it's tier weighted so it can get you up to say tier3 maybe, but as the tiers get higher up in skill it gives much less PSR so by about up to tier 3 it only gives you at most a even PSR
Tier even threshold
tier 5 300 missiles
tier 4 500 missiles
tier 3 1000 missiles
tier 2 4000 missiles
tier 1 10000 missiles

LOL

AMS has been removed from the MS / PSR equation because the artificially inflated Pilot Skill Rating did not correspond with the actual player's skill.

And now you are arguing that the zero-skill AMS should inflate Pilot Skill Rating again ...

KursedVixen, on 07 November 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:

But I have to ask how do you guys in tier one do the Missiles shot down challegnes???

You asked exactly the same question three days ago and you got your answer twenty minutes after you asked, right here and then another answer here.

[Curccu]

KursedVixen, on 07 November 2023 - 08:55 AM, said:

But I have to ask how do you guys in tier one do the Missiles shot down challegnes???

Last one? It didn't have good enough rewards for me to waste my little playtime to try get it.

[KursedVixen]

martian, on 07 November 2023 - 10:14 AM, said:

AMS in MechWarrior Online functions without any player action - no gunnery or piloting skill is required. So there is no reason why it should count towards the MS / Pilot Skill Rating.

Nobody penalizes you for using AMS.

You invest some tonnage in Anti-Missile System - you get better protection against missiles. You have got exactly what you paid for.

LOL

AMS has been removed from the MS / PSR equation because the artificially inflated Pilot Skill Rating did not correspond with the actual player's skill.

And now you are arguing that the zero-skill AMS should inflate Pilot Skill Rating again ...

You asked exactly the same question three days ago and you got your answer twenty minutes after you asked, right here and then another answer here.

Why should I listen to you when you don't even read through my post or totally ignore it? This is why i don't listen to anyone flaunting that tier 1 logo on the profile like it actually means anything...... Don't bother replying to this either as i'm no longer going to view your already blocked responces

[epikt]

KursedVixen, on 07 November 2023 - 12:23 PM, said:

Why should I listen to you when you don't even read through my post or totally ignore it?

Maybe because you too have a tendency to not read other's posts? Why should they listen to you?

Quote

This is why i don't listen to anyone flaunting that tier 1 logo on the profile like it actually means anything......

I don't know about T1 logos, but I have a theory about Clan Wolf avatars...



PS for the OP and like-minded players: do you really need an incentive in cbills/XP to do something ingame? I personally never look at the rewards, I just do stuff that are fun.

[martian]

KursedVixen, on 07 November 2023 - 12:23 PM, said:

Why should I listen to you when you don't even read through my post or totally ignore it? This is why i don't listen to anyone flaunting that tier 1 logo on the profile like it actually means anything...... Don't bother replying to this either as i'm no longer going to view your already blocked responces

Well, it seems that if you wish your PSR to go up, you will have to actually use your weapons to kill enemy 'Mechs instead of farming LRMs with AMS.

[foamyesque]

Widowmaker1981, on 07 November 2023 - 08:52 AM, said:

I have, quite literally, NEVER seen anyone complaining about LRMs in T1 games (aside from complaining that someone wasted their mech by putting LRMs on it)

If you took a shot every time TTB, for example, complains about getting shot by LRMs, you'd be passed out on the floor before one of his videos ended. D A T A has multiple threads on these forums trying to argue that LRMs are 'too strong'. Bassault is on record as thinking LRMs shouldn't exist at all, and failing that, was happy when the AMS event meant that the skies were completely clear for a few days.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure you could find other examples if you kept your eyes open.

martian, on 06 November 2023 - 08:48 PM, said:

Considering that the AMS range is quite good

AMS has essentially the same range as SRMs (275m v. 270m). If that's 'quite good' what the heck qualifies as short range for you?

[epikt]

foamyesque, on 07 November 2023 - 02:03 PM, said:

If you took a shot every time TTB, for example, complains about getting shot by LRMs, you'd be passed out on the floor before one of his videos ended. D A T A has multiple threads on these forums trying to argue that LRMs are 'too strong'. Bassault is on record as thinking LRMs shouldn't exist at all, and failing that, was happy when the AMS event meant that the skies were completely clear for a few days.

Let's be honest, TTB and DATA are professional whiners. If I had a penny every time they complain about anything I would be able to buy Jeff Bezos.

Edited by epikt, 07 November 2023 - 03:50 PM.

[martian]

foamyesque, on 07 November 2023 - 02:03 PM, said:

AMS has essentially the same range as SRMs (275m v. 270m). If that's 'quite good' what the heck qualifies as short range for you?

Clan Flamer - 90 m
Clan Micro Pulse Laser - 130 m
Clan Heavy Machine Gun - 120 m
Clan Machine Gun - 130 m
etc.