17 replies to this topic

[Jelan]

I get that every time there's a meta change we have to adapt, but clearly AP-Gauss are OP atm. Otherwise we wouldn't see at least 1 or 2 Warthogs in every match. When can we expect a balance change to address the warthog/ap-gauss meta?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Nothing overpowered about them. You just see them because unlike regular gauss, the shorter charge up times actually make gauss fun to use again so of course lots of people are using build based on them.

Seriously, that gauss charge mechanic was one of the worst decisions PGI has made in this game and don't give me that bull about 30 pin point damage a dual gauss build being able to do as being OP because I can easily boat a bunch of lasers and alpha out a 50+ point damage volley of lasers that will easily manage to do at least 30 of that 50+ points of damage to whatever section I am aiming at because the lasers wander off target.

Honestly, so many things have had the fun nerfed out of them because slight advantages in certain circumstances that it is ridiculous.

[Moadebe]

Jelan, on 12 October 2024 - 03:01 PM, said:

I get that every time there's a meta change we have to adapt, but clearly AP-Gauss are OP atm. Otherwise we wouldn't see at least 1 or 2 Warthogs in every match. When can we expect a balance change to address the warthog/ap-gauss meta?

If you look at the leaked upcoming patch notes they are getting nerfed. Albeit it is only a .2 second addition to cooldown. I honestly don't think its going to be enough, but its a wait and see scenario.

[ByJingo]

Imo it's the warthog that's op rather than the ap gauss and a big part of that is how much damage it can tank and at times the mech just seems plain broken. But, as others have said anything that can boat like that is going to be powerful. So maybe limiting the hsl to six would help.

[Manboobs-sama]

I really dislike that they're ruining their wonderful cooldown synergy with Snubs and SRMs just because of a few problem mechs.

There's any number of ways to change either the weapons themselves or the few problem mechs to rein in those mechs without hurting the weapon for every other mech that actually use them as the supplementary weapon they are supposed to be.

[Abaddun]

Unfortunately it's not necessarily the weapon itself that's the problem, it's the mechs that can run it. I know the Warthog has already been mentioned, but any light mech with 8 or more ballistic hardpoints can take what is otherwise a fairly balanced weapon and produce obscene results because of the relatively low CD and pinpoint damage. Really, CD isn't the issue, it's the lack of HSL on both magshots and ap gauss. Forcing mini-gauss boats to stagger fire will spread out the damage of an alpha and lead to longer TTKs
.

[pbiggz]

Angel of Annihilation, on 12 October 2024 - 03:36 PM, said:

Nothing overpowered about them. You just see them because unlike regular gauss, the shorter charge up times actually make gauss fun to use again so of course lots of people are using build based on them.

Seriously, that gauss charge mechanic was one of the worst decisions PGI has made in this game and don't give me that bull about 30 pin point damage a dual gauss build being able to do as being OP because I can easily boat a bunch of lasers and alpha out a 50+ point damage volley of lasers that will easily manage to do at least 30 of that 50+ points of damage to whatever section I am aiming at because the lasers wander off target.

Honestly, so many things have had the fun nerfed out of them because slight advantages in certain circumstances that it is ridiculous.

A lot of stuff in this game still dies on the altar of double ppc gauss jump snipers being too strong literally 11 years ago.

That said, its definitely possible to make a slingshot style weapon with a wind up fun to use and fun to fire. Its a question of tactile feedback among other things, and gauss rifles in this game have very little.

[Pixel Hunter]

Angel of Annihilation, on 12 October 2024 - 03:36 PM, said:

Seriously, that gauss charge mechanic was one of the worst decisions PGI has made in this game and don't give me that bull about 30 pin point damage a dual gauss build being able to do as being OP because I can easily boat a bunch of lasers and alpha out a 50+ point damage

yeah, the gauss thing was before a lot of power creep got introduced. Personally I think it's time to get of JJ shake and put Gauss back given all the blue laser vomit

[Quicksilver Aberration]

pbiggz, on 14 October 2024 - 09:48 AM, said:

A lot of stuff in this game still dies on the altar of double ppc gauss jump snipers being too strong literally 11 years ago.

That said, its definitely possible to make a slingshot style weapon with a wind up fun to use and fun to fire. Its a question of tactile feedback among other things, and gauss rifles in this game have very little.

This.

I've also definitely misjudged my charge and released the fire button prematurely and the sound doesn't always match up so having a cue that you can use to know you are good to fire on top of the sound would be really nice, one that also doesn't get drowned out when you are taking dakka/missiles to the face.

[Ttly]

Yeah, I really don't get why gauss charge is still a thing, it's more justifiable for the HAG or HGRs sure, but on regular Gauss it just ends up turning it into an AC10/UAC10 with waaaaaay worse DPS and ergonomics (because apparently not only do they need charge time, but also a cooldown that is worse than the AC20 apparently), not to mention more weapon weight and worse damage per ammo ton.
And besides, the SBG exists with its super quick charge-up (and faster cd) now, and projectile spread aside, tuning the charge time to be that short while it does make using it feel a lot better, doesn't really make it perform that much better than an LB10 either, especially for how much heavier it is which is kind of a proof that shortening or even removing charge time isn't really that much of a game changer you ask me other than making them more viable outside of sniping which they aren't even particularly exceptional at now that 2UAC2/AC2s have similar performance without its downsides/has more versatility, or even running UAC5s/AC5s instead.
And hitting a medium/more agile heavy can be rather challenging at sniping ranges even with its velocity, not to mention bad ammo/ton making every miss for it more wasteful than other weapons trying to do the same, and the rendering for CryEngine being rather jank too at these distances to add to the challenge.
If nothing else they can just remove charge time but add 0.3-0.5s cooldown on Gauss, Light Gauss, SBG, and C-Gauss, and most people would probably be happier to use Gauss even if it's still underpowered.

As for APG/MGauss, they're really only annoying on Warthog (doing almost 30 pinpoint damage back-to-back comparable to an AC20 Hunchback but way more agile and faster)/FLE-19s (fast, faster velocity, small hitbox, good weapon placement for it), outside of those two they're not really that much more of a deal than your average 3LPPC lights or something.

Edited by Ttly, 16 October 2024 - 03:57 AM.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

And when the AAP gause is no longer a viable option, someone will be bitching about them boating HMG's! Yeah, those I think are a crapload more dangerous!

[East Indy]

Quote

it is only a .2 second addition to cooldown

That translates to: whoever wanted an effective nerf lost the argument.

Folks, folks. It's not the weapon, it's the bunch of them. Always has been.

[Pixel Hunter]

East Indy, on 19 October 2024 - 07:18 AM, said:

That translates to: whoever wanted an effective nerf lost the argument.

Folks, folks. It's not the weapon, it's the bunch of them. Always has been.

And honestly, I wish we didn't have to have a ridiculous boating problem to make a brawling mech scary when close in. The "oh no my meta" posts have been over the top. Something to challenge the golden child blue laser meta is a positive for this game.

[Chrome Magnus]

Yeah even after the baby nerf AP Gauss is when OP esp when boated. Magshot is still in that same boat too. Anyone who says different just likes trolling in them.

They need more cumulative penalties that kick in once a certain # are equipped. 2.2 cooldown for most mechs and something like 2.5 if running more than 8, 2.6 if more than 10 and a 38.6 second cool down if running 14.

[RockmachinE]

I don't know about other tiers, but T1 EU servers you rarely see gauss boats. They do exist, but they aren't very common, you can easily go a dozen rounds without seeing one.

[foamyesque]

As a weapon system per se, APG is fine and magshot's not all that great. The issue is basically two mechs: The Warthog and the Flea-19. The global cooldown nerf doesn't really address that; adding HSL to the APG or dequirking the Flea would be two things that would attack the problem on the variants where it *is* a problem.

Edited by foamyesque, 01 November 2024 - 03:28 PM.

[RockmachinE]

I genuinely don't see an issue, both are very easy to take down.

[Livingvicarious]

I've put in about 170 games with the magshot Flea and think it's pretty low risk high reward. You really don't have to put yourself out there to get kills. The only real downside of it is that it's "slow" because it lacks MASC. Also you're limited to how much ammo you can fit but generally when you run out of ammo the game is almost over.

Damage potential compared to my R5K or FLE-17 is lower, but the ability to gimp a mech is much higher while maintaining a competitive average damage. Legging a light mech or coring out the torso on bigger mechs means more to me than splashing damage all over the place. Also not having to be within 300 meters is also kind of a bit much.

Overall I don't think it's the most blatantly over powered thing ever added to the game. It's only really useful on a handful of mechs as either boating them or mixing them with PPCs. I just don't like pinpoint damage and think it's cancer.