18 replies to this topic

[Tic_]

Why does PGI go in and change hit boxes and damage after buying mechs? these changes are not announced the weapons do not do the damage intended is this a SCAM to get you to buy more?

[Curccu]

Tic1, on 20 January 2024 - 09:27 AM, said:

Why does PGI go in and change hit boxes and damage after buying mechs? these changes are not announced the weapons do not do the damage intended is this a SCAM to get you to buy more?

It is called balancing, whether you agree about changes or not.

PS. what weapons do not do the damage intended?

[Davegt27]

I under stand what you mean put they will just tell you to shut up and get used to it

I am not a gamer I had given up on PC games back in the 90's
and when the Mechs I had just bought got changed I was ready to call my CC company

I was told that is how things works (I spent $55)

I still don't understand the constant changes but the game is still some what fun
and I just check my brain at the door

I especially don't understand the Mechs not taking damage
I have learned not to say to much

edit: oh don't like your own post they frown on that

Edited by Davegt27, 20 January 2024 - 01:08 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Ofcourse stuff in an multiplayer game has to be adjusted if it's overpowered, boring...
Quite standard procedure for every multiplayer game. Otherwise the game would be pretty much unplayable bye now. It's not possible to nail balance on first trial. Especially since there is no budget for test server (and even these would only slightly reduce the necessary patches). And mwo has a shitload of mechs with different hard points, tonnage, hitboxes, game modes.... Far more complex than most mp titles.

In singleplayer that's an different thing and balance usually only gets fixed if rly
bad

[Cyborne Elemental]

To the OP.

Could you be a little more specific about what hitbox changes?

Which weapons are causing issues?

Random rants usually end up being received badly.

Details of your issues will get better answers, and does not leave us guessing or assuming what point you're making.

Also, PGI is not making the balance changes for MWO, a group of community players who have played this game since beta as well as many of the competitive and leading community members have taken the wheel.

The Cauldron, backed by players who want to get involved in making MWO better, discuss, vote, and take community suggestions, and the do so in Discord channels to make discussions in near real-time about what is broken, and what can be fixed, and how.

Such as the free Mech event for Jenner mechs for January.
The Jenner Mech had hitbox changes made to the mech, and made it a play to get free stuff event.

Then everyone that wants to chime in, has free access to those mechs, and can be on a level field to discuss their gripes.

Now keep in mind, The Cauldron members are human beings too, and oversights and especially issues with initial or long standing problems do not always get done in a way that pleases every player.

With a game this old, with this many unique mechs, skills, quirks, and this many weapons to use, keeping things balanced can be a huge challenge.

So if something got changed, there was a good reason for it.

[Tic_]

I mostly use missles I don't like long range its boring but when you spend money on a game then 2 weeks later your doing 1/4 the damage you where dealing then killed with 1 shot over 800m away it sucks. They need to nerf all players NOT CHERRY PICK

[ScrapIron Prime]

Tic1, on 20 January 2024 - 03:42 PM, said:

I mostly use missles I don't like long range its boring but when you spend money on a game then 2 weeks later your doing 1/4 the damage you where dealing then killed with 1 shot over 800m away it sucks. They need to nerf all players NOT CHERRY PICK

There's an upcoming change to missiles, but nothing has changed yet. And the only hitbox change that has been made recently is on the sides of the Atlas' head, enabling it to shield its CT from the sides.

I'm taking it you had a bad match and are blaming the game? As others have said, hit registration is sometimes screwy. But if you're using missiles, then by far the most common issue of low damage is just that the red team used cover well, not a game engine issue.

[Tic_]

The missile damage i'm talking about is from ATM's in which I put 3 salvo's to an enemy Med mech that's out in the open and very little damage I continued all week testing it out the damage output had been drastically reduced to a point where you can't defend yourself and went from 3/4 of tier 2 to 1/4. I switched to SRM's and couldn't even get 400 damage on my viper. I don't use LRM's but what made me complain was the other teammates noticing the LRM damage drastically reduced while being killed off by long range ER lasers.Hit boxes I've noticed was in the Fafnir which i use to love to pilot but now your easy prey because the hit boxes have been drastically changed in the torso which can barely take 3 shots with 100 armor so the armor number means nothing its a joke.

[Curccu]

Tic1, on 20 January 2024 - 03:42 PM, said:

I mostly use missles I don't like long range its boring but when you spend money on a game then 2 weeks later your doing 1/4 the damage you where dealing then killed with 1 shot over 800m away it sucks. They need to nerf all players NOT CHERRY PICK

Last patch was December 12... nothing has changed after that. You are just imagining things.

Tic1, on 21 January 2024 - 07:51 AM, said:

The missile damage i'm talking about is from ATM's in which I put 3 salvo's to an enemy Med mech that's out in the open and very little damage I continued all week testing it out the damage output had been drastically reduced to a point where you can't defend yourself and went from 3/4 of tier 2 to 1/4.

ATM damage nerf also happened April 2021, only buffs since that.

Tic1, on 20 January 2024 - 03:42 PM, said:

I switched to SRM's and couldn't even get 400 damage on my viper.

Probably you problem instead of weapon problem.

Tic1, on 21 January 2024 - 07:51 AM, said:

I don't use LRM's but what made me complain was the other teammates noticing the LRM damage drastically reduced while being killed off by long range ER lasers.

There hasn't been LRM damage nerfs...

Tic1, on 20 January 2024 - 03:42 PM, said:

Hit boxes I've noticed was in the Fafnir which i use to love to pilot but now your easy prey because the hit boxes have been drastically changed in the torso which can barely take 3 shots with 100 armor so the armor number means nothing its a joke.

Fafnir hitbox change happened March 2023, quite fast reaction from you to that change.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Davegt27, on 20 January 2024 - 01:07 PM, said:

I under stand what you mean put they will just tell you to shut up and get used to it

I am not a gamer I had given up on PC games back in the 90's
and when the Mechs I had just bought got changed I was ready to call my CC company

I was told that is how things works (I spent $55)

I still don't understand the constant changes but the game is still some what fun
and I just check my brain at the door

I especially don't understand the Mechs not taking damage
I have learned not to say to much

edit: oh don't like your own post they frown on that

It's not a complicated concept -- a game that ships feature-complete and never has content updates does not need balance passes on existing content because nothing has changed and whatever balance was present at launch is maintained consistently, shifting only with player knowledge and skill increases.

A game which is a live service that receives periodic content additions by its nature will need occasional balance patches when new content and systems interact with old ones in unexpected ways, or when a new piece of content which was not sufficiently playtested before release turns out to be over- or under-tuned.

Age of Empires II went from 1999 to the late 2010s/early 2020s without balance patches, but as soon as development on it restarted and new content was added it started getting them.

[Tic_]

Cyborne Elemental, on 20 January 2024 - 02:42 PM, said:

To the OP.

Could you be a little more specific about what hitbox changes?

Which weapons are causing issues?

Random rants usually end up being received badly.

Details of your issues will get better answers, and does not leave us guessing or assuming what point you're making.

Also, PGI is not making the balance changes for MWO, a group of community players who have played this game since beta as well as many of the competitive and leading community members have taken the wheel.

The Cauldron, backed by players who want to get involved in making MWO better, discuss, vote, and take community suggestions, and the do so in Discord channels to make discussions in near real-time about what is broken, and what can be fixed, and how.

Such as the free Mech event for Jenner mechs for January.
The Jenner Mech had hitbox changes made to the mech, and made it a play to get free stuff event.

Then everyone that wants to chime in, has free access to those mechs, and can be on a level field to discuss their gripes.

Now keep in mind, The Cauldron members are human beings too, and oversights and especially issues with initial or long standing problems do not always get done in a way that pleases every player.

With a game this old, with this many unique mechs, skills, quirks, and this many weapons to use, keeping things balanced can be a huge challenge.

So if something got changed, there was a good reason for it.

So what your telling me and everyone new coming to play is that a certain select group of players are making changes to the game and can FIX the game to their favor. They are treated, " SPECIAL" and not be held to the same set of rules as everyone else. I'm sure people that PAY money for the mechs PGI advertises would not appreciate being duped.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

First and foremost:

Terms of Use said:

4. CONTENT

We may, from time to time at our sole discretion and without notice or liability, create, amend, change, or delete any content from our Services.

Second:
That player group, the cauldron, make a great effort to improve the balance of this very complicated and difficult to balance game. For free. They are not doing so for themselves, but for the benefit of every player.

Edited by Aidan Crenshaw, 13 February 2024 - 02:57 AM.

[Samziel]

Tic1, on 12 February 2024 - 08:42 PM, said:

So what your telling me and everyone new coming to play is that a certain select group of players are making changes to the game and can FIX the game to their favor. They are treated, " SPECIAL" and not be held to the same set of rules as everyone else. I'm sure people that PAY money for the mechs PGI advertises would not appreciate being duped.

I've paid alot and havent been duped. Balancing is a part of any game. If you dont understand that be prepared to get bamboozled a lot.

[Curccu]

Tic1, on 12 February 2024 - 08:42 PM, said:

So what your telling me and everyone new coming to play is that a certain select group of players are making changes to the game and can FIX the game to their favor.

No that is not what text you quoted said.
Want to tell us how do they fix game to their favor?
I would also remind you that one PGI employee is part of the Cauldron.

Tic1, on 12 February 2024 - 08:42 PM, said:

They are treated, " SPECIAL" and not be held to the same set of rules as everyone else.

Want to explain what rules you are talking about?

Tic1, on 12 February 2024 - 08:42 PM, said:

I'm sure people that PAY money for the mechs PGI advertises would not appreciate being duped.

Duped how?
I have used quite a lot of money to this game and no idea what you are talking about.

[feeWAIVER]

Everyone in this thread is being a jerk. Stop it.

oP, are you aware that atm DMG fluctuates based on range?

[RickySpanish]

feeWAIVER, on 13 February 2024 - 10:31 AM, said:

Everyone in this thread is being a jerk. Stop it.

oP, are you aware that atm DMG fluctuates based on range?

So much this! Jeez.

There's been a bunch of changes recently that could have affected OP's experience including what FeeWAIVER pointed out. Also OP clan heatsinks got wacked recently, and the Viper (are you piloting the Scaleshot?) has had a huge series of nerfs too. Also LRMs got nerfed (or is that still coming?). I am inclined to believe though that it's the range bracket of ATMs affecting their damage that you are falling foul of.

[Gasboy]

Davegt27, on 20 January 2024 - 01:07 PM, said:

I am not a gamer I had given up on PC games back in the 90's
and when the Mechs I had just bought got changed I was ready to call my CC company

I was told that is how things works (I spent $55)

When you signed up to play, you agreed that they can change things in their game without prior notice. These are game changes meant to maintain a fair balance. If you don't agree with them making changes for balance, why did you sign up to play, or spend money?

Quote

I still don't understand the constant changes

Small, iterative changes are better than large changes. Also, many times things might work on paper but don't translate well to the actual game. And no game dev company in the world can afford to properly test their games. So PGI essentially balances by eye, tests the changes on a small scale, pushes it to live servers, waits a little bit to see how the balance works out, makes more tweaks and repeats the cycle.

Quote

I especially don't understand the Mechs not taking damage

You'd have to provide video examples of this in order for anyone to be able to speak to it. Could be latency, could be a bug, could be crappy aim on your part, or a lack of knowledge of maximum range, and optimal range.

[Gasboy]

Tic1, on 12 February 2024 - 08:42 PM, said:

So what your telling me and everyone new coming to play is that a certain select group of players are making changes to the game and can FIX the game to their favor. They are treated, " SPECIAL" and not be held to the same set of rules as everyone else. I'm sure people that PAY money for the mechs PGI advertises would not appreciate being duped.

Yes, a select group of players are helping PGI with balancing the game. The players are known for their good play and deep knowledge of the numbers as well as an eye for fairness and balance, and have been doing a decent job of things. One might not agree with every last change, but overall they have been good.

There is absolutely no way for them to "fix the game in their favour". How would this be accomplished? If they make a certain mech 'special', or a certain weapon type OP, or make a certain meta exist... every single person will be able to 1) read about the changes and 2) make use of the special mech, weapon or meta. That doesn't give any one person any advantage at all.

And they are most definitely held to the same rules. Giving advice on balance changes doesn't make them above the rules. They don't get to act with impunity or anything.

You have definitely been reading things here completely wrong.

Edited by Gasboy, 13 February 2024 - 11:05 PM.

[Ken Harkin]

When people mention weapons doing no damage I always wonder if they are playing an event with the 2X or 3X armor enabled for the event. When that is in effect you do not show any damage taken or give on the paper doll until you get to the original mech's armor value. If armor is normally 100pts and it is now 3X (300 pts) no damage will show until 201 points of damage are taken.

This is only in the events.