45 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 04 January 2024 - 08:06 PM, said:

You could, but it is just messier than just saying "hey the medium laser that lights mount is different from what assaults mount" that way big guns can also be different for lights because the tonnage investment is more problematic for them.

a medium laser can be different for every variant just using quirks. you grossly underestimate the power of the quirks system and what you can do with it. there are lots of levers to pull to make weapons work good for lights and have diminishing returns on the fatter mechs.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 05 January 2024 - 09:15 AM, said:

Well there is the XL issue, but there are also the Owens and Strider which both have SHS by default.

That said I've argued the iXL should not have the side torso death just in general for years because engine balance is honestly one of the sources of balance issues between the tech bases. The problem is without engineering support, LFE and STD engines both become just engines you use to fit specific weapons in the torso section at that point.

just throw in a few apocryphal variants that use a different engine type. if you dont like your engine move your omnipods.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

LordNothing, on 05 January 2024 - 09:31 AM, said:

a medium laser can be different for every variant just using quirks. you grossly underestimate the power of the quirks system and what you can do with it.

I do, I understand you can, but at the point which is what we are running into now is that with power creep, mechs get left behind. By pushing everything into quirks it means when you would want to make a change to the medium laser for all lights, you have to redo all their quirks rather than a single weapon.

It's possible any number of ways, however the question then becomes what is the least fragile. Quirks are great for flavor, but what they have become thanks to PGI's refusal to balance the base tech is they are that tech balance mechanism and its why some mechs get left behind, because you don't want to change too many mech's quirks, but some of their quirks tell their age.
The cauldron has done good with what they have, but IMO it could be better if we undid some of these stupid quirks and actually tried to balance the base tech more and then reapply the quirks that make sense per chassis.

This is a systems design thing, and at the point that every mech has a quirk for a weapon (or every mech in a weight class), the base values of weapons mean significantly less because it can be practically a new/different weapon depending on the quirks. The worst part is, because everyone is afraid to untangle this mess, we justify adding to it and add to it, making it even harder to untangle short of a complete redo.

For example if everything is getting armor quirks, that should tell you we just need to increase armor across the board and reduce the quirks accordingly. That and some quirks really probably shouldn't exist because they can impact muscle memory or have the Valorant scenario where trying to keep straight all the special quirks can be a nightmare to know what ranges for example you can abuse against certain weapons etc.

IMO, range, laser duration, velocity, and maybe even cases like RAC ramp up or jam chance probably shouldn't be quirks because they can impact that.

LordNothing, on 05 January 2024 - 09:31 AM, said:

just throw in a few apocryphal variants that use a different engine type. if you dont like your engine move your omnipods.

This just sounds like a mess, just make them battlemechs and be done with it.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 05 January 2024 - 10:26 AM.

[Mark Yore]

CloaknDagger, on 03 January 2024 - 05:58 PM, said:

I've been gone for a year or so and now that I've come back, I'm happy to see HAGs and Blazers and X-Pulses in the game now! They're fun and I like the variety.

But could we get even more please? Fundamentally, it's incredibly easy to add new weapons to the game, most stuff can be outright copy-pasted and just have the values tweaked, so it would be great to see lots of new weapons added to the game very quickly at next to no development cost.

In general I support a wider range of weapons. BUT their introduction can have major knock-on effects to the viability (or otherwise) of mechs. So every time new weapons pop up their is always a couple of outlier mechs that can take advantage of them in a way that unbalances play.

I'd prefer it if any new weapons were introduced one at a time. Once real life testing and feedback has been done PGI can then look at introducing the next one.

[BumbleBee]

I'd love some new weapons, like the Arrow IV.

I'd rather have new equipment like armour types and electronics packages though

[Rhaelcan]

New weapons in febuary

[kalashnikity]

i'm voting for more things like Small Cockpits (maybe add a ~10% heat nerf to compensate),

XL, XXL, and Small Gyros all have built in compensation.

Reflective armor. Hardened armor.

XXL engines have a massive built in heat debuff and are delicate, perfect compensation.

HarJel would be interesting.

[pbiggz]

kalashnikity, on 13 January 2024 - 07:34 PM, said:

i'm voting for more things like Small Cockpits (maybe add a ~10% heat nerf to compensate),

XL, XXL, and Small Gyros all have built in compensation.

Reflective armor. Hardened armor.

XXL engines have a massive built in heat debuff and are delicate, perfect compensation.

HarJel would be interesting.

If you want to shoot for lowest, but most doable things for PGI to add, Reflective and Reactive Armour (you need both for it to work properly) and Hardened armour would absolutely throw the most spectacular wrench into the meta.

For one thing, hardened armour would make certain brawling builds far more viable, because shrugging off some fire might give a brawler time to close the distance.

As for reflective/reactive armour, this game encourages boating; its just how it is, its the safest, most reliable way to put the hurt on someone else. If suddenly one day, your laser boat does 50% damage, or could do 50% damage, and the same is true for dakka boats, then maybe, instead of running solely lasers, you mix lasers and autocannons, or lasers and missiles. Alphas go down, builds shift.

If they have such limited resources that they can only pick a couple of things to do, i'd certainly suggest the 3 special armour types.

[Zalin]

The chemical lasers sound badass! They would mix well with my ballistic builds, and out of all that you listed I want that the most.

[martian]

Many new weapons announced:

InnerSphereNews, on 16 January 2024 - 04:20 PM, said:

Upcoming March Weapons:

I am excited to reveal we have some new weapons that are currently in development!

Inner Sphere weapons:
- Light AC/2 and AC/5: A modified version of the Autocannon that sacrifices cooldown and range for a lighter weight.
- Silver Bullet Gauss Rifle: A modified gauss rifle that fires its shells in a spread pattern with a rapid cooldown.
- Magshot Gauss Rifle: A much smaller gauss rifle designed for targeting smaller opponents.
- Thunderbolt Missile 5, 10, 15, 20: A medium range, lock on, high payload missile system.

Clan weapons:
- Proto AC/2, AC4, and AC/8: Similar to IS LACs, a modified Autocannon with increased weight savings, longer cooldown, and shorter range.
- AP Gauss Rifle: A much smaller gauss rifle designed for targeting smaller opponents.
- Beam Laser: A variation of the X-Pulse laser, this large class laser gives a continuous beam output.
- Plasma Cannon: A lighter version of the Clan ERPPC, this weapon deals a slight amount of heat damage along with regular damage.

Check this post: Mechwarrior Online Legends 2024 Q1 Intel

[LordNothing]

martian, on 16 January 2024 - 06:30 PM, said:

Many new weapons announced:



Check this post: Mechwarrior Online Legends 2024 Q1 Intel

yay!

[Rondoe]

I'm wondering how feasable Proto-Mechs would be ingame, probably not, due to scaling issues, just wondering.

I'm not a fan of them in table top battle tech games.

[martian]

Rondoe, on 16 January 2024 - 08:28 PM, said:

I'm wondering how feasable Proto-Mechs would be ingame, probably not, due to scaling issues, just wondering.

I'm not a fan of them in table top battle tech games.

They would not work in MWO:

• In BattleTech, they need maps with lots of cover, be it broken terrain, dense vegetation, many buildings with narrow alleys, etc. Typical MWO maps would not be suitable.
  
• In BattleTech, they are expendable assets. If you throw them into the battle, you must expect to lose all or almost all of them. In MWO, even the weakest and lightest 'Mech is expected to have at least some survivability.
  
• In BattleTech they work as a part of a coordinated team. In your typical MWO game, slower ProtoMechs would be quickly left behind by their own nascaring "team" and wiped out by the enemy.
  
• Weak armament in general. In MWO, kills and damage output are everything.

There are many other reasons and I am not going to list them all. ProtoMechs will almost certainly never be added to MWO.

[Valdarion Silarius]

martian, on 16 January 2024 - 06:30 PM, said:

Many new weapons announced:



Check this post: Mechwarrior Online Legends 2024 Q1 Intel

I like the choices, but maybe sneak in some clan ER pulse lasers in there for good measure But I can only imagine the insane heat build up from here.

[Major Audie Murphy]

I can't wait to see someone break the game with 8 Magshots in a Fle-19.

[torsie]

Waiting for X pulse TAG

Major Audie Murphy, on 18 January 2024 - 08:19 PM, said:

I can't wait to see someone break the game with 8 Magshots in a Fle-19.

No promises, but I will definitely try something like that with my little Flea , I like guns, but they are so heavy and large, you cant use anything outside of machine guns, and they are little bit boring.

Small ballistic weapons are definitely a great addition.

Edited by torsie, 18 January 2024 - 10:49 PM.

[MrTBSC]

Major Audie Murphy, on 18 January 2024 - 08:19 PM, said:

I can't wait to see someone break the game with 8 Magshots in a Fle-19.

10k C Bills says they will have GH with HSL at 6 similar to medium lasers

Edited by MrTBSC, 19 January 2024 - 05:30 AM.

[Major Audie Murphy]

MrTBSC, on 19 January 2024 - 05:29 AM, said:

10k C Bills says they will have GH with HSL at 6 similar to medium lasers

Shhhhh! Don't give them ideas like that!

I built 8xMagshot fleas in MW5, they are "interesting"

If the Clan AP Gauss is similar the Arctic Cheeta will run it nicely.

Too bad there are no stealth IS lights with enough ballistic hard points.

[Duke Falcon]

martian, on 16 January 2024 - 09:46 PM, said:

They would not work in MWO:

• In BattleTech, they need maps with lots of cover, be it broken terrain, dense vegetation, many buildings with narrow alleys, etc. Typical MWO maps would not be suitable.
  
• In BattleTech, they are expendable assets. If you throw them into the battle, you must expect to lose all or almost all of them. In MWO, even the weakest and lightest 'Mech is expected to have at least some survivability.
  
• In BattleTech they work as a part of a coordinated team. In your typical MWO game, slower ProtoMechs would be quickly left behind by their own nascaring "team" and wiped out by the enemy.
  
• Weak armament in general. In MWO, kills and damage output are everything.

There are many other reasons and I am not going to list them all. ProtoMechs will almost certainly never be added to MWO.

Not to mention that ProtoMechs works like Battle armours: 3-5 together represent a "point", a single mech.
Playing a lone, single ProtoMech means a "one-hit-bye-bye!"...

[Meep Meep]

Duke Falcon, on 20 January 2024 - 07:32 AM, said:

Not to mention that ProtoMechs works like Battle armours: 3-5 together represent a "point", a single mech.
Playing a lone, single ProtoMech means a "one-hit-bye-bye!"...

So pretty much the same as the current crop of 20 tonners?

I can see protomechs working as npc troops though in some future pvp based mw game.

Make the focus more a battlefield where humans in mechs fight on huge objective based maps filled with npc like in mw5.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Meep Meep, on 20 January 2024 - 08:16 AM, said:

So pretty much the same as the current crop of 20 tonners?

I can see protomechs working as npc troops though in some future pvp based mw game.

Make the focus more a battlefield where humans in mechs fight on huge objective based maps filled with npc like in mw5.

I really wish people would stop saying things like this. That's a PvPvE style game and it can and will be cheesed *cough* Destiny 2s Gambit *cough*. You are better off just having it be MW5/6 than in MWO2.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 20 January 2024 - 08:20 AM.