25 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

Curccu, on 08 January 2024 - 12:48 PM, said:

They are pretty coolrunning weapon with minimal spread and not that slow velocity for reals(And some of the Cauldrons want to get rid of that spread) and they got massive DPS, combined with xpulses which are hot... you can do stupid amount of damage in few seconds.
If you remove Spin there needs to be some kind of trade-off nerf for them not to be OP.

sure they got massive dps, and that dps is not nearly as effective as a big damage dump, not by a long shot. while they are doing massive dps over time, you can do near-instant mech-crippling damage with a 60-70 alpha build and be back into cover before the dps even has time to matter. a half a second at low dps is nothing. the mech on the receiving end has time to twist and to reposition, find cover, before the dps really starts to take its toll. thats generally how i handle rac boats, spread damage, break los and trade during their spin-up. the situation would be more fair if i had to eat some damage to do my damage dumps, and i suspect i could still win trades against them on damage output alone. maybe its the midrange lasers that need the spinup.

they also have a really bad damage per heat (only thing worse is flamers), idk how that translates into cool running. perhaps in a short burst but not the 6 seconds it requires to match a 60-70 point damage dump. id be willing to lose a couple dps just for the ability to fire immediately.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 January 2024 - 02:31 PM.

[crazytimes]

LordNothing, on 08 January 2024 - 02:16 PM, said:

they also have a really bad damage per heat (only thing worse is flamers), idk how that translates into cool running. perhaps in a short burst but not the 6 seconds it requires to match a 60-70 point damage dump. id be willing to lose a couple dps just for the ability to fire immediately.

They tend to be jam limited rather than heat limited on most of the more logical builds. If boating them, it's easy enough to set up fire groups with only some of them as well to heat manage.

I've still got the classic 3 x RAC2 bushwhacker from before the RAC5 buffs, and it is impossible to overheat. The 4xRAC2 Nightstar-10P can, but it's easy enough to just alternate groups of two when you're getting near heat cap. Even mixed weapon builds like the old 3 x RAC2 + 3xAC2 Annhilator struggles to hit heatcap before jamming.

Yes they are high heat/DPS, but if your build doesn't have the heat capacity to use them until around the jam point then you're not really using them to their strengths.

[Kynesis]

In retrospect, I want to rescind my comment. Even if my perception is that they aren't as powerful, that's a good thing. Even with recent nerfs, damage values generally are still too high (the reduction in heat sink values has, I think, been very impactful). You're also right, I shouldn't have said "objectively" without data. Words are important.

[Ken Harkin]

Frankly RACs should have no spread. They deal their damage OVER TIME. If a RAC 5 is putting out 11DPS and the target is moving the damage should already be spreading. You also have projectile speed to account for. On top of that there is the blinding muzzle flash.

The whole justification for eliminating HAG spread was the shots hit over a protracted period, roughly 1 second for a HAG 40.

If a potato is going to stand there and let lasers and HAG burn through single locations then RACs should be the same.

[PocketYoda]

Racs by design have always been worse..

[Curccu]

Ken Harkin, on 10 January 2024 - 06:32 AM, said:

Frankly RACs should have no spread. They deal their damage OVER TIME. If a RAC 5 is putting out 11DPS and the target is moving the damage should already be spreading. You also have projectile speed to account for. On top of that there is the blinding muzzle flash.

The whole justification for eliminating HAG spread was the shots hit over a protracted period, roughly 1 second for a HAG 40.

If a potato is going to stand there and let lasers and HAG burn through single locations then RACs should be the same.

"I also don't believe minor spread is a good thing(for this reason I plan on making a case for RAC spread removal to the Cauldron in the near future), either big spread or no spread is what I prefer." -Frost_Byte
Source

PocketYoda, on 10 January 2024 - 01:54 PM, said:

Racs by design have always been worse..

..than?