18 replies to this topic

[Rand Blacktree]

The Onyx is not my first centurion, but it seems to be the absolute worst. First off, that big shield does not block a damn thing. I will have my mech turned so that it is facing incoming fire and my torsos are still getting blasted. Not only that, but despite the armor numbers you display for it, I've seen it get blown off way before that number should be reached. And then finally, the CT on that mech draws all the shots. It is ridiculous. I've never had a centurion take so much CT damage. If anything, the two medium lasers tucked in are the last weapons I ever have...but for the Onyx, I lose the CT faster than any other area. Maybe that big shield is actually nothing, and the hit box is truly just the arm...but that is a huge disservice to people that buy that mech. Rotating it towards fire does next to nothing. And it doesn't seem to actually absorb the amount of damage the builder suggests. I am having a devil of a time trying to find some build that works for it, but so far, nothing has, despite having several successful centurion builds. It just sucks shots right to the CT and dies very quickly.

[Heavy Money]

Works great for me. It does have its own hitbox which is that big.

[feeWAIVER]

Put some skill points in torso twist, and you can make it twist as fast as a locust.

[Void Angel]

I'm pretty sure they just used the same torso model, and thus hitboxes. Could you do some testing?

[Major Audie Murphy]

There is a warhammer build I made yesterday that can probably take that shield off in one hit.

How many points does it have?

[Void Angel]

Major Audie Murphy, on 18 January 2024 - 03:34 PM, said:

There is a warhammer build I made yesterday that can probably take that shield off in one hit.

How many points does it have?

119 armor and 48 structure. Before skills. I wanna see your build.

[cougurt]

make sure that you aren't over-twisting and exposing your back when you're trying to shield. you might not think that you are, but it can be difficult to tell at times not being able to see the enemy's POV, and it's something i've encountered a lot of when facing them myself.

you may also be underestimating how much damage you're receiving; the shield has a lot of armor, but it's still a limited resource that you have to use wisely if you want to get the most out of it. it won't allow you to tank a firing line without getting severely punished (usually), and you have to be mindful of high alpha builds as you would in anything else. you want to avoid taking unnecessary damage in any mech, and having a shield doesn't change that.

Edited by cougurt, 18 January 2024 - 06:01 PM.

[feeWAIVER]

Also, don't use lasers on it.. use projectiles so you can fire and twist.
You don't want to be trading lasers burns with it, because you will likely always be losing that trade.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 18 January 2024 - 06:42 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The mistake I see most Onyx pilots make is to think that they can block all the damage from targets at 240 degrees, 270 degrees, and 300 degrees. Two of those mechs are leaking damage through. And if those mechs can each do 40 points of damage on a trigger pull, the shield is gone in an instant.

The Onyx is very strong against a single opponent, but against several opponents, situational awareness is more important.

[TheCaptainJZ]

If the max alpha of a mech was closer to 30-40, it would take a couple shots to destroy it, but with all the weapons fire and high alphas in this game today, it is not really surprising that it's gone in 10 seconds.

[Stavus]

Rand Blacktree, on 18 January 2024 - 01:18 PM, said:

The Onyx is not my first centurion, but it seems to be the absolute worst. First off, that big shield does not block a damn thing. I will have my mech turned so that it is facing incoming fire and my torsos are still getting blasted. Not only that, but despite the armor numbers you display for it, I've seen it get blown off way before that number should be reached. And then finally, the CT on that mech draws all the shots. It is ridiculous. I've never had a centurion take so much CT damage. If anything, the two medium lasers tucked in are the last weapons I ever have...but for the Onyx, I lose the CT faster than any other area. Maybe that big shield is actually nothing, and the hit box is truly just the arm...but that is a huge disservice to people that buy that mech. Rotating it towards fire does next to nothing. And it doesn't seem to actually absorb the amount of damage the builder suggests. I am having a devil of a time trying to find some build that works for it, but so far, nothing has, despite having several successful centurion builds. It just sucks shots right to the CT and dies very quickly.

how are you manageing to colculate incoming damage to know that it is "blowing off to fast" ... seriously ... explain this


because to me it sounds like buyers remorse because its not some OP monster like "some" of the other paid mechs have been

[feeWAIVER]

Stavus, on 19 January 2024 - 09:03 AM, said:

how are you manageing to colculate incoming damage to know that it is "blowing off to fast" ... seriously ... explain this


because to me it sounds like buyers remorse because its not some OP monster like "some" of the other paid mechs have been

It's like 200 total hp fully skilled..
You really want it to be blown off.. that means it did it's job.

[Rand Blacktree]

So let me be more specific. What I am talking about is not standing in the open twisting back and forth and thinking I should be god. I'm talking run and gun constantly, using terrain to help limit shots. There is no 50tonner in the game that can sit out in the open and expect to live long. I've had very good success using other Cents without a large shield. I'm not changing my general play style, but I am trying to use the shield. To that end, to watch my mech get cored game after game is fairly unusual. I'm used to putting my left side to incoming fire already. With that large shield, you'd think more would get blocked, and due to the pool of armor that it has, it would last a bit.

In one game, I was very surprised how quickly that shield evaporated despite me moving and using terrain. It went from barely scratched to gone in 5 seconds. Now, maybe that was a weird one off where I faced some major firepower...but still, losing 200hp in a few seconds is unusual.

Now, the big concern is really the CT taking so much damage. I've got hours of experience driving centurions. One of the reason so many of my builds have std engines in them is how durable they are even after losing side torsos. This build does use an XL, so you could think...well he's losing a side torso and that's why he died. But no...what I'm seeing is my CT blown out and my side torsos not even red yet. And this isn't just one or two games, this is by far the majority of games in this mech. I'll keep playing it and testing it. But to me, seems like way too much damage is reaching the CT.

[Vxheous]

Rand Blacktree, on 19 January 2024 - 01:36 PM, said:

So let me be more specific. What I am talking about is not standing in the open twisting back and forth and thinking I should be god. I'm talking run and gun constantly, using terrain to help limit shots. There is no 50tonner in the game that can sit out in the open and expect to live long. I've had very good success using other Cents without a large shield. I'm not changing my general play style, but I am trying to use the shield. To that end, to watch my mech get cored game after game is fairly unusual. I'm used to putting my left side to incoming fire already. With that large shield, you'd think more would get blocked, and due to the pool of armor that it has, it would last a bit.

In one game, I was very surprised how quickly that shield evaporated despite me moving and using terrain. It went from barely scratched to gone in 5 seconds. Now, maybe that was a weird one off where I faced some major firepower...but still, losing 200hp in a few seconds is unusual.

Now, the big concern is really the CT taking so much damage. I've got hours of experience driving centurions. One of the reason so many of my builds have std engines in them is how durable they are even after losing side torsos. This build does use an XL, so you could think...well he's losing a side torso and that's why he died. But no...what I'm seeing is my CT blown out and my side torsos not even red yet. And this isn't just one or two games, this is by far the majority of games in this mech. I'll keep playing it and testing it. But to me, seems like way too much damage is reaching the CT.

The Onyx hitboxes and the standard Centurion hitboxes are the same, so it's definitely a you problem

Edited by Vxheous, 19 January 2024 - 02:43 PM.

[LordNothing]

the onyx, as much as i was against it from the start, has turned out to be one of the better performing legendries. just don't forget which side the shield is on.

[LordNothing]

TheCaptainJZ, on 18 January 2024 - 07:27 PM, said:

If the max alpha of a mech was closer to 30-40, it would take a couple shots to destroy it, but with all the weapons fire and high alphas in this game today, it is not really surprising that it's gone in 10 seconds.

the value of the shield is not in tanking but trading. if it takes the enemy 2 shots to take off the shield, that means you are 2 alphas ahead of them in taking out something vital.

[cougurt]

Rand Blacktree, on 19 January 2024 - 01:36 PM, said:

In one game, I was very surprised how quickly that shield evaporated despite me moving and using terrain. It went from barely scratched to gone in 5 seconds. Now, maybe that was a weird one off where I faced some major firepower...but still, losing 200hp in a few seconds is unusual.

there are lots of mechs with alphas in the 70+ range, it's entirely possible that a couple of mechs just decided to unload on your shield simultaneously and vaporize it. something to keep in mind is that the shield being a single large hitbox makes it vulnerable to large alphas that might normally spread across multiple components or partially miss. so, while it sounds really impressive having almost the same HP as an atlas' CT, in practice the shield is likely to get destroyed much faster if people are actively shooting at it.

Rand Blacktree, on 19 January 2024 - 01:36 PM, said:

Now, the big concern is really the CT taking so much damage. I've got hours of experience driving centurions. One of the reason so many of my builds have std engines in them is how durable they are even after losing side torsos. This build does use an XL, so you could think...well he's losing a side torso and that's why he died. But no...what I'm seeing is my CT blown out and my side torsos not even red yet. And this isn't just one or two games, this is by far the majority of games in this mech. I'll keep playing it and testing it. But to me, seems like way too much damage is reaching the CT.

the centurion's CT is actually pretty easy to hit, and i would recommend using an XL or at least LFE on them for that reason. as far as i'm aware the hitboxes are identical across all variants. i haven't seen anyone else reporting any issues with the onyx, and i've not noticed any difference myself.

[Vorpal Puppy]

Rand Blacktree, on 19 January 2024 - 01:36 PM, said:

So let me be more specific. What I am talking about is not standing in the open twisting back and forth and thinking I should be god. I'm talking run and gun constantly, using terrain to help limit shots. There is no 50tonner in the game that can sit out in the open and expect to live long. I've had very good success using other Cents without a large shield. I'm not changing my general play style, but I am trying to use the shield. To that end, to watch my mech get cored game after game is fairly unusual. I'm used to putting my left side to incoming fire already. With that large shield, you'd think more would get blocked, and due to the pool of armor that it has, it would last a bit.

In one game, I was very surprised how quickly that shield evaporated despite me moving and using terrain. It went from barely scratched to gone in 5 seconds. Now, maybe that was a weird one off where I faced some major firepower...but still, losing 200hp in a few seconds is unusual.

Now, the big concern is really the CT taking so much damage. I've got hours of experience driving centurions. One of the reason so many of my builds have std engines in them is how durable they are even after losing side torsos. This build does use an XL, so you could think...well he's losing a side torso and that's why he died. But no...what I'm seeing is my CT blown out and my side torsos not even red yet. And this isn't just one or two games, this is by far the majority of games in this mech. I'll keep playing it and testing it. But to me, seems like way too much damage is reaching the CT.

Although you may not be changing your playstyle, you need to understand that the Onyx IS changing your opponents playstyle. It's big shield is really obvious. Currently, its the only mech with one. Not sure what tier you are playing, but any half-way decent player realizes they are just wasting heat shooting that shield. They are going to target something else - usually that will be the CT. You can get away with stripping a lot of armor off the legs to free up a bit of tonnage - almost no one will target your legs. As someone already said, skip the lasers on your Onyx build. Only use click to fire weapons with no duration - I stick with the snubs and LBX. I like my Onyx - it's a solid mech.

[LordNothing]

the aksum has those huge shield arms as well. its not quite head to toe like the onyx but it does make that mech virtually flankproof, which is great for a ranged dps platform. an ultraviolet will lose its st long before the aksum loses an arm.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 January 2024 - 06:25 PM.