17 replies to this topic

[Raffen Volt]

I have been encountering a lot of heavies and assaults in quick play that are boating multiple rac 5s, HAGS, ultra autocannons, gauss, and heavy gauss, and I'm having a hard time finding counters or workarounds, because most teams are made up of heavies and assaults, and it seems that ballistic boats are a popular choice for a lot of players. I am in Tier 5, and I prefer to play faster medium and light mechs with jump jets, with the exception of my Charger 1A1. Most games that I play against ballistic boats, I will try to use cover and keep moving until I can flank them or get in their rear, while trying to stay close to my team mates. But I usually end up getting hit by a bunch of RAC, HAG, and gauss, and get destroyed. It can be pretty frustrating when it happens several games in a row. Does anyone have any suggestions on tactics or counterplays to these ballistic heavies and assaults?

[Meep Meep]

If you are playing lights and mediums then you should be using your speed to get in flank shots away from their line of fire then hide and repeat.

Here are a couple of builds for countering the long range spam currently in most matches.

Lppc Spider. Ecm so you don't get instantly spotted when you take your shots. Enough JJ to get to the most common spots or poptart. 675m optimal so no need to get close and half damage at 1000m ish so taking pot shots at wallflowers has a bit of bite if you keep hitting them. 142kph so can relocate very fast.

sdr-5d

Skill tree: af715cd9d744c28460a49cdf5ef207420405a4588404a034a06676c000000

Hag30 Shadowcat. Same concept as the spider just more of everything. A bit slower overall but you do get masc so you can quickly relocate.

shc-b

Skill tree: aab4a5252029274110149cdf5ef207560617a57a9424a024a06676c000000

[foamyesque]

Depends on the ballistic boats. Counterplay against rapidfire ballistics -- 2s and 5s in particular, but also even 10s -- is to deny them time to shoot and to dump a lot of damage in a brief window before they can win a DPS war. Counterplay against gauss is to try to out DPS them. Counterplay against 20s is to avoid being in range.

[Bassault]

A lot of those weapons don't have a lot in common with each other. Rapid fire ballistics like ac2, ac5, ultras and racs can be defeated by having a mech with a high alpha strike and beating them in trades. The fatter your mech is though, the harder it is to win these trades because the projectiles tend to be easier to land on you.

Heavy gauss mechs are really bad, all you need to do is push them with more DPS and twist their heavy gauss shot off (you can tell when they need to fire when they look at you a few seconds after firing the first shot) or you can just shoot them from 500m or more, you'll win your trades against them unless you have a skill issue.

HAG mechs are usually really hot, so try to get them in the open (like a push), or use a lot of movement to make their hag spread all over you from range. If you have decent range, you can probably beat them in trades if you shoot them first and then twist a lot, their volley fire will spread everywhere. If you have gauss ERLL, or are a erppc poptarter you will just obliterate them from long range if you play correctly.

[LordNothing]

movement, as much as possible. rough terrain, keep twisting. anything which puts error into their lead solution. move crosswise to incoming fire whenever possible, in case of rapid fire also try to close distance to keep all the weapon effects behind you and out of your face.

try to get rac boats into a trading battle. try to close distance with gauss and out dps. hags run hot so force the battle and try to cook em. exploit jammed up uac boats. massed machine guns, hgauss, and 20 class, try to keep distance, and try to crit out whatever component holds the big guns.

[Raffen Volt]

Meep Meep, on 04 February 2024 - 08:06 PM, said:

If you are playing lights and mediums then you should be using your speed to get in flank shots away from their line of fire then hide and repeat.

Here are a couple of builds for countering the long range spam currently in most matches.

Lppc Spider. Ecm so you don't get instantly spotted when you take your shots. Enough JJ to get to the most common spots or poptart. 675m optimal so no need to get close and half damage at 1000m ish so taking pot shots at wallflowers has a bit of bite if you keep hitting them. 142kph so can relocate very fast.

sdr-5d

Skill tree: af715cd9d744c28460a49cdf5ef207420405a4588404a034a06676c000000

Hag30 Shadowcat. Same concept as the spider just more of everything. A bit slower overall but you do get masc so you can quickly relocate.

shc-b

Skill tree: aab4a5252029274110149cdf5ef207560617a57a9424a024a06676c000000

Thank you! I used your Spider build and I love it! I tweaked the skill tree a bit to suit my preferences, but overall it's a fun and fast mech to play that hits hard for its weight. I was able to reposition very fast and focus fire on enemy mechs engaged with my team mates. I'll try the Shadowcat build and see what I think of it. Thanks for the info!

[1453 R]

The thing I'll recommend, in part because it's so difficult for me, is patience. Especially in 'Mechs like that Spider it can feel like you need to be constantly shooting to output enough damage to justify bringing the 'Mech, but getting greedy and taking reckless shots is exactly what a lot of the PPFLD types are hoping for. They want you to take that one last LPPC shot so they can finish honing in on you and smack you for fifty damage, quite possibly harvest a shoulder and kill you. And even the DPS-oriented designs are gonna chip you down quicker than you think if you're constantly taking winging fire from them.

It's hard, it sucks, especially when you see that juicy opened-up orange or red component and you know one more shot could pull that component off. But you gotta get better than I am good at recognizing when you've spent your shot in a given spot and need to be elsewhere no matter how much your soul might yearn for that finishing shot. Been spending a lot of time in light 'Mechs recently myself, being painfully reminded that all it takes is one single goof for you to wind up dead or crippled for the rest of the match.

[Curccu]

1453 R, on 05 February 2024 - 05:45 AM, said:

The thing I'll recommend, in part because it's so difficult for me, is patience. Especially in 'Mechs like that Spider it can feel like you need to be constantly shooting to output enough damage to justify bringing the 'Mech, but getting greedy and taking reckless shots is exactly what a lot of the PPFLD types are hoping for. They want you to take that one last LPPC shot so they can finish honing in on you and smack you for fifty damage, quite possibly harvest a shoulder and kill you. And even the DPS-oriented designs are gonna chip you down quicker than you think if you're constantly taking winging fire from them.

It's hard, it sucks, especially when you see that juicy opened-up orange or red component and you know one more shot could pull that component off. But you gotta get better than I am good at recognizing when you've spent your shot in a given spot and need to be elsewhere no matter how much your soul might yearn for that finishing shot. Been spending a lot of time in light 'Mechs recently myself, being painfully reminded that all it takes is one single goof for you to wind up dead or crippled for the rest of the match.

Well if you want to do good in light mech like that you kinda have to work almost whole game, it has sustained DPS of only 3,1. if your heat meter is in zero you are doing it wrong IMO.

That mech is pretty fast and jumpy, it can take shots from 550m away (doing full damage) while flying sideways and not many players in whole game can land hits to that spider in that scenario with ballistics.

Edited by Curccu, 05 February 2024 - 07:17 AM.

[1453 R]

Yeah, being good in that 'Mech or similar ones is about being able to lay into people the entire game. My caution was mostly about learning the evasive, stay-alivey part of the game plan before the constant-pokery part. It's not like medium or heavy 'Mechs that can (sometimes) eat an extra salvo to confirm a kill - you take any substantial fire as a light 'Mech and you're either dead or effectively dead. Have been trying to teach myself aggressive skirmishing lately rather than the mid-heavy striking I normally prefer and the learning curve has been...abrupt. Heh.

[CFC Conky]

It sounds like you're doing the right things regarding movement. I've been playing medium mechs exclusively this month working at skilling up some underused chassis and it's been brutal, with my avg ms tanking in a big way. At least with light mechs you have the mobility to get out of bad situations. When it comes to mediums, other than some outliers, to get mobility you often have to sacrifice firepower and vice-versa. It's worse with IS mediums because the weight of weapons/equipment might force you to use an XL engine to get a useful loadout. The situation is better with Clan mediums although they run hotter and are more squishy.

In the end I just try to fire at enemies when they are occupied by other friendly mechs, or if not, when they aren't looking my way. If I'm running SRMs, and I have some effective mediums for that, I'll stick with the friendly assault mechs and attack targets of opportunity.

Of course being a team-based game, if your team melts quickly there's not a lot you can do but try to get in as much damage in as possible before you get whacked.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[ThreeStooges]

I just bomb them with lrm 60s or 80s in a heavy. Under lrm 40 and you're just wasting your time. The new nerfs to lrm means you need to double what you use to take just to do half the damage. It is fun to see 2-4% of a mech's armor just go poof. It nukes most meds and lights along with anything dumb enough to run xl.

[CFC Conky]

ThreeStooges, on 05 February 2024 - 11:52 AM, said:

I just bomb them with lrm 60s or 80s in a heavy. Under lrm 40 and you're just wasting your time. The new nerfs to lrm means you need to double what you use to take just to do half the damage. It is fun to see 2-4% of a mech's armor just go poof. It nukes most meds and lights along with anything dumb enough to run xl.

Perhaps, but the OP says he prefers fast mediums and light mechs.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[RickySpanish]

Believe it or not, but fast Lights and Mediums are a direct counter to any build that requires sustained output to deal damage, or in other words, face-time. You'll need to focus on learning the geometry of your 'Mech, from what cover it can effectively shoot from, where that is on the maps and ensure you have cover handy at all times. All those face-time 'Mechs rely on you to make a mistake to be effective - you must remain in the open to receive their full damage. This is good for you, because it's a mistake you can correct. Once you get good at not over exposing, and getting into cover quickly, most of the ballistic combos you have trouble with will no longer be a threat. Heavy gauss is a bit trickier though, in that you don't really get a second chance. Thankfully they're slow, and focussing the torso with a HG in will let you quickly halve them.

[Alexander of Macedon]

1453 R, on 05 February 2024 - 05:45 AM, said:

The thing I'll recommend, in part because it's so difficult for me, is patience. Especially in 'Mechs like that Spider it can feel like you need to be constantly shooting to output enough damage to justify bringing the 'Mech, but getting greedy and taking reckless shots is exactly what a lot of the PPFLD types are hoping for. They want you to take that one last LPPC shot so they can finish honing in on you and smack you for fifty damage, quite possibly harvest a shoulder and kill you. And even the DPS-oriented designs are gonna chip you down quicker than you think if you're constantly taking winging fire from them.

It's hard, it sucks, especially when you see that juicy opened-up orange or red component and you know one more shot could pull that component off. But you gotta get better than I am good at recognizing when you've spent your shot in a given spot and need to be elsewhere no matter how much your soul might yearn for that finishing shot. Been spending a lot of time in light 'Mechs recently myself, being painfully reminded that all it takes is one single goof for you to wind up dead or crippled for the rest of the match.

This is the incorrect takeaway. Your initial feeling was correct: in a low-alpha light you should be constantly shooting to make up for your low damage output.

The consequences you're describing come from over-committing, either to a peeking spot or to a skirmish (depending on your build). You've got mobility, use it, not just to relocate but while engaging. Instead of re-peeking the same corner or hill three or four times work the area, pop out from a different place each time. If you're running a close-range skirmish build it's the same notion applied differently -- go in if you have an opportunity, but have an exit plan if you can't finish the kill without taking hits.

If you're in a location where you only have one option for where you're going to expose and shoot, it's not a good location for a light. If you're only using one option of multiple available to you, you're not doing it sensibly.

Patience is definitely important (moreso for skirmish lights than poptarts or peekers), but it's mostly the patience to not engage from a flank until a bit after the two teams have made contact. I see this one all the time, where a light pilot gets over-eager and is the first dorito the enemy team sees, usually resulting in getting squirreled by 4-5 people.

[Doppelsoldner King Crab]

Greetings! I mostly play ballistic assaults.

Here are my thoughts, counter to ballistic assaults.

1. Light mechs with fast accel/decel. Both lasers and PPC are okay. Go in and out of cover. Minimize peeking at the same location. Kitfox is quite slow, avoid them.

2. Jump Jet lights / mediums. Again, minimize exposure time. The only way they will hit you is that you jump at the same location you previously jumped.

3. Weird hitbox mechs. ACs shoot inaccurately against these.

4. Never stop moving. Ballistics need lead to hit. If the enemy leads shots, they won't hit the same area due to convergence.

5. Stay in a group / call your teammates vs separated assaults. No explanation needed.

6. Determine the assault's effective range.
Assault with AC20s, move beyond 450m+.
Assaults with small ACs, alpha is low, safe to peek and contest.

Most dangerous ACs are 5s and 10s. Boated 5s are effective at long ranges, AC10 are great at medium ranges. Against them, pray for a bad shot then retaliate.

[Sjorpha]

LordNothing, on 04 February 2024 - 10:29 PM, said:

movement, as much as possible. rough terrain, keep twisting. anything which puts error into their lead solution. move crosswise to incoming fire whenever possible, in case of rapid fire also try to close distance to keep all the weapon effects behind you and out of your face.

try to get rac boats into a trading battle. try to close distance with gauss and out dps. hags run hot so force the battle and try to cook em. exploit jammed up uac boats. massed machine guns, hgauss, and 20 class, try to keep distance, and try to crit out whatever component holds the big guns.

[BarHaid]

I know it's difficult in your preferred weight class, but lurms are a good counter. If you want to try a spicier approach, an SRM bomber might fit your playstyle better! Coming in fast with 3 or more SRM6s will cause much pain. But your positioning and ability to strike from surprise will be the deciding factor in any engagement.

[pattonesque]

BarHaid, on 09 February 2024 - 01:47 PM, said:

I know it's difficult in your preferred weight class, but lurms are a good counter. If you want to try a spicier approach, an SRM bomber might fit your playstyle better! Coming in fast with 3 or more SRM6s will cause much pain. But your positioning and ability to strike from surprise will be the deciding factor in any engagement.

limited value. any good ballistic boat will be firing from cover that they can easily reverse into should lurms come at them