27 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

Nine-Ball, on 08 April 2024 - 01:32 PM, said:

Is the score a result of the weapons themselves, the enemy being timid and unwilling to push a sniper or was the team good enough to cover the sniper and take the heat off him?

Geez...what happens when an lurm boat gets pushed?

Seriously, don't be f* ridiculous because we all know what builds are most commonly played nowdays next to mid-range laser vomit.

[foamyesque]

Weeny Machine, on 08 April 2024 - 09:40 AM, said:

You don't want to imply that ERPPC/Gauss long range fire is as challenging and requires as much repositioning as LRMs?

Man, I drive a Shadow Cat cERPPC sniper for preference and while I reposition a lot because that's the point of having a Shadow Cat, I'll tell you right now that landing shots with those guns is a boatload easier and less frustrating than making LRMs work.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Weeny Machine, on 08 April 2024 - 01:17 PM, said:

No, the point is that even if you do such a thing, you can get good scores with PPCs and Gauss. Why? Simply because you have no ECM bubble interfering with your fire and when you shoot LRMS without locks the speed is still terrible. Not to mention that you can fire Gauss and ERPPCs across half the map

So please, do not use the skill strawman in this argument.

The only strawman being used is assuming that LRMs are somehow more skillful because of lock times or hard counters. The whole point of hard counters is that skill can't overcome them, they turn the game into rock, paper, scissors.

For the record though, I see people miss with Gauss/ERPPC across the map all the time, in fact I hate seeing MAD-4Ls, Stealth Fafnir/Thanatos, and MAD-IIC-Ds on my team because they almost always have awful aim and its painful to watch when they are last alive (worst is when they are fresh). However, compare that to the LRM45 Atlas of yore back before ECM and radar derp were even twinkles in Paul's eyes, it was hard to mess up and not do well.

Sorry, lock time limits the situations it's applicable in but does not increase the amount of skill to use, that much (like a sliver) much like Gauss' charge time. The difference is, there is just much less to account for when using lock-ons compared to gauss. You don't have to compensate for lead time, you don't have to worry about multiple hit boxes, etc. You have to worry about hard counters but there is little skill can do to save you from it without serious build taxes (TAG, BAP, PPCs, NARCs, etc). I don't like the system but to bandaid it, the hard counters and LRMs need to be nerfed slowly to at least offer something LRMs haven't had in years: consistency.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 08 April 2024 - 04:56 PM.

[foamyesque]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 08 April 2024 - 04:55 PM, said:

The only strawman being used is assuming that LRMs are somehow more skillful because of lock times or hard counters. The whole point of hard counters is that skill can't overcome them, they turn the game into rock, paper, scissors.

For the record though, I see people miss with Gauss/ERPPC across the map all the time, in fact I hate seeing MAD-4Ls, Stealth Fafnir/Thanatos, and MAD-IIC-Ds on my team because they almost always have awful aim and its painful to watch when they are last alive (worst is when they are fresh). However, compare that to the LRM45 Atlas of yore back before ECM and radar derp were even twinkles in Paul's eyes, it was hard to mess up and not do well.

Sorry, lock time limits the situations it's applicable in but does not increase the amount of skill to use, that much (like a sliver) much like Gauss' charge time. The difference is, there is just much less to account for when using lock-ons compared to gauss. You don't have to compensate for lead time, you don't have to worry about multiple hit boxes, etc. You have to worry about hard counters but there is little skill can do to save you from it without serious build taxes (TAG, BAP, PPCs, NARCs, etc). I don't like the system but to bandaid it, the hard counters and LRMs need to be nerfed slowly to at least offer something LRMs haven't had in years: consistency.

At least before the twin velocity nerfs you could actually land hits dumbfiring LRMs. Effectively impossible now. Me, I'd revert the last velo nerf and I'd keep the go-faster bonus from Artemis, so that if you go LRMA you actually get usable LRMs again.

[Meep Meep]

I'm surprised they buffed thunderbolts to 300ms. Those are going to be waaay worse than lrm ever were once people figure them out.

[LordNothing]

i always though 4x was a little high. lermers shouldn't have to eat two alphas while trying to get a lock.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 April 2024 - 06:13 PM.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Note that the ECM increase on lock-on time is only on targets not in LOS. ECM does not affect lock-on time on targets with direct LOS.