11 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

Are there code reasons why we can't just change the mechs from +! every type of ammo to just +ammo?

That quirk window getting crazy

I mean to exclude the JUST machine gun and JUST LRM ammo mechs, but there are a few that have basically every ballisitc weapon and even if it is just visually can we have it be +ammo? maybe + Ballsitic Ammo?

Edited by Xetelian, 10 April 2024 - 01:22 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

If they could peel a developer off of something else, sure. Currently, ammo bonuses are listed as "plus a number of rounds" so they need one entry per weapon type. Otherwise +1000 rounds of light MG ammo would also be +1000 rounds of heavy gauss ammo. If they could be listed as percentages that would solve things, but the system isn't set up for that, they'd need a bit of code.

And right now they don't have a person for a bit of code.

[Curccu]

Devs / Cauldron want to to tell you how much extra ammo you got... different weapons have different amount of extra ammo...
or would you like to have +10 ammo to HGR and MG, doesn't feel fair to MG build.

[feeWAIVER]

A long time ago, they were floating the idea of having an item called Ammo Crate, that weighed 2 tons of whatever, but would give you infinite ammo.

[Xetelian]

feeWAIVER, on 10 April 2024 - 06:32 AM, said:

A long time ago, they were floating the idea of having an item called Ammo Crate, that weighed 2 tons of whatever, but would give you infinite ammo.

Wow, they could double armor again and increase TTK if they let you carry unlimited ammo but no one would go for that, so maybe they'll keep creeping up the ammo and armor/structure quirks/skills

As for the rest of you, I appreciate the response

I figured all the more generic mechs are too hard for a person to judge. When the big generic is on everything they get the same bonus as each other, so I assumed we could at least merge the goofier ones, it isn't like most people use a cUAC5 or cUAC10 or is UAC10/20 are aware of how many bullets come out and how many shots 30 rounds are, but I understand.

[LordNothing]

feeWAIVER, on 10 April 2024 - 06:32 AM, said:

A long time ago, they were floating the idea of having an item called Ammo Crate, that weighed 2 tons of whatever, but would give you infinite ammo.

while i generally like ammo quirks, they really help ammo starved mechs. but they do sometimes feel kludgy. cant help but think of a better way to do this.

i can see ammo drop being a consumable. just drops a crate at a location, you walk by it, shut down, wait 10 seconds and it will refill your mech to +25% of its capacity (split proportionally between each ammo type). with the right skills you can bring 2 or 3 of them. give them a whole branch on the consumables tree, so you can buff your crates to +50% refill, buff cd, etc.

also not against adding two more ammo nodes to each ammo type or merging them into a 6-node cluster.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 April 2024 - 03:58 PM.

[Abaddun]

It's purely a UI problem, I don't see why the ammo quirk groups cannot be consolidated behind a percentile figure. PGI don't actually need to change how much ammo the quirk gives us, just how that information is conveyed to the player at a glance. For more accurate ammo counts, players can look at how much ammo is in each individual ton.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Abaddun, on 10 April 2024 - 04:02 PM, said:

It's purely a UI problem, I don't see why the ammo quirk groups cannot be consolidated behind a percentile figure. PGI don't actually need to change how much ammo the quirk gives us, just how that information is conveyed to the player at a glance. For more accurate ammo counts, players can look at how much ammo is in each individual ton.

You're sure its just the UI? What's your info source?

[LordNothing]

since the skill tree splits missile and ballistic ammo, it makes sense to give either ballistic or missile quirks. cauldron seems to like replacing specific quirks with generic quirks anyway so it could be enough cleanup.

quirks for specific weapon families like machine gun, gauss, autocannon. for missiles you could do either range bracket or guided/unguided.

part of the problem is number of rounds is given rather than a flat percentage values that obfuscate the rounding errors. im not sure why the former was preferred over the latter. if i need more info i can just mouse over the ammo in my build to see what im actually getting.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 April 2024 - 07:02 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Abaddun, on 10 April 2024 - 04:02 PM, said:

It's purely a UI problem, I don't see why the ammo quirk groups cannot be consolidated behind a percentile figure. PGI don't actually need to change how much ammo the quirk gives us, just how that information is conveyed to the player at a glance. For more accurate ammo counts, players can look at how much ammo is in each individual ton.

I'm not sure why you think it's a UI issue when the quirks specifically call out the additive value per weapon. Pretty sure the implementation of ammo quirks to begin with are the technical limitation. I'm not sure why they chose additive over multiplicative but it's too late to see that changed now.



As for infinite ammo, honestly that's how things should be as ammo is really just a build tax. It really doesn't impact gameplay decisions that much because you typically you design your builds so that they have enough ammo for the match. The only gotcha is ammo quirks but IMO that is a bandaid to a larger issue in that a lot of weapons are just stupidly heavy for lighter chassis which itself is a symptom of a much larger issue (too much disparity between available tonnage of weight classes and no weapons fulfilling that role that lighter mechs can use in place of them).

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 11 April 2024 - 08:40 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Sure, but if you free up tonnage from an assault dakka boat, they're gonna spend that space and weight in heat sinks and become even more dangerous. Imagine having only 1.5 tons devoted to ammo for a build with 2xUAC/5, 1xUAC/10, 1xUAC/20. Or an LRM 90 build with just a half ton for ammo.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

ScrapIron Prime, on 11 April 2024 - 10:08 AM, said:

Sure, but if you free up tonnage from an assault dakka boat, they're gonna spend that space and weight in heat sinks and become even more dangerous.

TBF, ammo weapons would need their tonnage to be increased by the "average" tonnage of ammo you mount for each one to help prevent that (two tons per UAC5 for example eats tonnage really fast). That isn't a change you can make and just not expect other dominos to fall without making changes elsewhere (whether it be increased heat or increased tonnage taxes).