33 replies to this topic

[stonecolddevin]

I'm sure this boils down to skill issues and not following the meta properly but I'm losing my ******* mind.

It seems like since the start of the current season my combat and critical thinking skills regarding this game have either completely atrophied or I'm missing something. I just played a match running a KDK3 with 2 LBX-20s and 3 plasma cannons on HPG Manifold where I was legged within the first minute or so of the game and completely dismantled within 2-3 minutes after. I barely had time to engage anyone and it's not like I ran out into the open like an idiot.

I'm tier 3, my K/D has gone from ~1.5 to .85 within a matter of weeks and I'm completely dumbfounded. Unless I'm running with a team that's communicating and coordinating a lot, I seem to get run over with no kills regardless of how carefully I'm playing.

I just don't really understand it. I fully acknowledge deaths due to impatience or bloodlust but I just don't understand how the game has changed this drastically for me in such a short amount of time. Going from 3~ kills a game to barely being able to eek out 1 before getting melted by lasers or autocannon fire in under a month is baffling to me.

Is there some new meta I'm not following? It feels like I'm getting hard countered with the builds I like to play.

[Nine-Ball]

The tactical meta is to always dogpile the biggest threats or those out of position.

The meta meta is mobility and mid-range laser builds as they allow you to torso twist faster, get out of bad positions faster and get into better positions quicker while maintaining a large enough alpha strike to be a threat at most ranges. Jumpjets are the cherry ontop as they allow you to attack from places and angles non-JJ users can't attack from.

"Specialized" builds like slow brawlers, snipers, lrm boats, srm bombers and the like tend to be hit or miss depending on the map and how your team operates. This is down to team cohesion and how every other build tends to swing and if your not on a team that is a brawling build like yours they'll tend to focus on their own gameplan.

The only viable alternative to the above is to run faster longer ranged builds so you have the ability to be a threat from longer range than 350m and the mobility to get yourself out of dodge if/when your team decides to nascar.

Also, K/D ratio is rather incidental since all it takes is a single point of damage to get credited with a "kill" while Kills Most Damage Dealt are counted in-game but not on the leaderboards for some strange reason. The better stat to gauge yourself on is Average Match Score as that will generally let you know how much you contribute to your team on average.

[LordNothing]

midrange firepower and a mech that can do 60 go a long way. trying to brawl exclusively is not going to cut the mustard. think of a brawl more as something you sometimes have to do rather than a specific play style. or play solaris themed events in eq because that's all brawl all the time.

every match goes through a camp and trade phase, and eventually the ranges grow shorter as the match progresses. you can build a brawler and wait for the teams to get close, but without the early game damage you will be facing more mechs or mechs with more armor, some of which may also be brawlers, so there is really no reason to try and bring a brawler to that moment of glory. not doing the trades in the earlier phases of the game will just lead to a disadvantageous position later on.

just pick weapons that work out as well in close quarters as at range, ac2s and 5s can be boated to be very useful in close quarters. 10s are usually good enough for most engagements. with a kodiak you can bring hags which both hit hard and work at a myriad of ranges. otherwise put the brawl weapons on smaller mechs, a medium with an lb20 for example can do work if its fast enough to get into trouble and get out again without dying. pick off straglers or try to kite them to an isolated location for single combat. if they all come for you, run.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 April 2024 - 04:53 PM.

[MrMadguy]

It's called disfunctional matchmaker, that matches you against Tier 1 guys. Drop to Tier 4 and you'll get rid of them. Other problem - chance of getting completely useless cadet teammates will be higher.

[MarcinT1981]

The problem with Kodiak-3 is that its Accel/Deccel/Turn Rate is probably the worst in the entire game, so it is not suitable for a brawler. It may work sometimes, but what matters is not what works once in a while, but what works often.
Kodiak is not a tank either, and that's also important.
Maybe change the build to something like this, it's quite strong. You have range, you can trade because it has high mounts (only AC or on the right side)
Don't look at what mechlab will say, you can shoot four AC10s, there's almost no ghost heat

kdk-3

P.S. If you want, you can increase your back armor, but no more than 4-5 points

Edited by MarcinT1981, 14 April 2024 - 11:26 PM.

[kalashnikity]

stonecolddevin, on 14 April 2024 - 02:25 PM, said:

I'm sure this boils down to skill issues and not following the meta properly but I'm losing my ******* mind.

It seems like since the start of the current season my combat and critical thinking skills regarding this game have either completely atrophied or I'm missing something. I just played a match running a KDK3 with 2 LBX-20s and 3 plasma cannons on HPG Manifold where I was legged within the first minute or so of the game and completely dismantled within 2-3 minutes after. I barely had time to engage anyone and it's not like I ran out into the open like an idiot.

I'm tier 3, my K/D has gone from ~1.5 to .85 within a matter of weeks and I'm completely dumbfounded. Unless I'm running with a team that's communicating and coordinating a lot, I seem to get run over with no kills regardless of how carefully I'm playing.

I just don't really understand it. I fully acknowledge deaths due to impatience or bloodlust but I just don't understand how the game has changed this drastically for me in such a short amount of time. Going from 3~ kills a game to barely being able to eek out 1 before getting melted by lasers or autocannon fire in under a month is baffling to me.

Is there some new meta I'm not following? It feels like I'm getting hard countered with the builds I like to play.

NASCAR has gotten absolutely insane recently.

It's currently a race to swap positions with the other team before anyone even fires a shot. I've seen this in well over half the matches recently.

Solution is to get active on Comms every match, and start calling out plans that don't involve NASCAR.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Ye gotta actively use the coms and provide intel (mark spotted mechs 24/7) to focus at least a part of your team's attention onto what happens on the battlefield. Call strongpoints or lanes of opfor-approach ... works out usually. But in the end and often enough, one has to accept if the team is about to nascar and adapt properly (be that by sticking to the mainbulk of racemechs, by hiding until the opfor's racemechs go into lap 2 or by sacrificing yourself).

[martian]

stonecolddevin, on 14 April 2024 - 02:25 PM, said:

...
Is there some new meta I'm not following? It feels like I'm getting hard countered with the builds I like to play.

Play as you like, use 'Mechs and builds that you like. Let PSR do its job. Eventually, PSR will move you to the most appropriate Tier, i.e. Tier where you will face other players of your skill level and running similar type of builds.

[pbiggz]

MWO differs from previous titles in that assault mechs do not equate to supreme power, in fact, they're about as unforgiving as light mechs are; an extremely specialized feast-or-famine play style that rewards planning, experience, and coordination. I had an annihilator that could two shot most things; it went 48. If the team kept me alive, I could do some serious work. Most of the time the pugs just walked away, so unless I got lucky it was not a suitable build for solo quickplay. Clan 100 tonners are even more unforgiving; despite being a bit faster, the kodiak is NOT very tanky. If you are in the right place at the right time you will perform magnificently but you need to know exactly where to be an when to be there.

The reason midrange and high mobility are the most popular builds (and not snipers as some suggest) is because midrange is the least risky build style; basically any map and any team comp will let you perform if you can move at 86kph with a relatively high alpha and solid survivability; jumpjets are a bonus.

If you want an analogy from another game; i've been playing World of Warcraft Classic: Season of Discovery, classic servers where the classes get a bunch of new abilities/abilities from future expansions; Paladins have a reputation for being an absolutely braindead easy mode class; this is not actually the case; paladins are a bat man utility belt class with an absolute shitload of specialized tools for specialized scenarios and knowing when, where, and how to use those tools gives one access to one of the most terrifying classes in the game; only, most people seem to be attracted to the class because they think its easy. This has resulted in a class forum and social media presence almost entirely defined by players protesting how "bad" their class is and listing all the ways blizz should be buffing the class, though, more applicable to MWO is simply that players who understand how to use the tools they have find pretty much universal success, while those who don't feel like they're missing something fundamental.

[LordNothing]

MarcinT1981, on 14 April 2024 - 11:10 PM, said:

The problem with Kodiak-3 is that its Accel/Deccel/Turn Rate is probably the worst in the entire game, so it is not suitable for a brawler. It may work sometimes, but what matters is not what works once in a while, but what works often.
Kodiak is not a tank either, and that's also important.
Maybe change the build to something like this, it's quite strong. You have range, you can trade because it has high mounts (only AC or on the right side)
Don't look at what mechlab will say, you can shoot four AC10s, there's almost no ghost heat

kdk-3

P.S. If you want, you can increase your back armor, but no more than 4-5 points

kodiak was nerfed quite heavily from its meta heyday. i cant say it was ever amazing, i do better work with a dire, but it was workable. there was also a uac10 nerf that also helped kill its best build.

also its pretty much a tall awesome in terms of how hard it is to miss. its ability to hide much of that frontal area behind a hill is its only redeeming factor.

[BLXKNTRR]

stonecolddevin, on 14 April 2024 - 02:25 PM, said:

I'm sure this boils down to skill issues and not following the meta properly but I'm losing my ******* mind.

It seems like since the start of the current season my combat and critical thinking skills regarding this game have either completely atrophied or I'm missing something. I just played a match running a KDK3 with 2 LBX-20s and 3 plasma cannons on HPG Manifold where I was legged within the first minute or so of the game and completely dismantled within 2-3 minutes after. I barely had time to engage anyone and it's not like I ran out into the open like an idiot.

I'm tier 3, my K/D has gone from ~1.5 to .85 within a matter of weeks and I'm completely dumbfounded. Unless I'm running with a team that's communicating and coordinating a lot, I seem to get run over with no kills regardless of how carefully I'm playing.

I just don't really understand it. I fully acknowledge deaths due to impatience or bloodlust but I just don't understand how the game has changed this drastically for me in such a short amount of time. Going from 3~ kills a game to barely being able to eek out 1 before getting melted by lasers or autocannon fire in under a month is baffling to me.

Is there some new meta I'm not following? It feels like I'm getting hard countered with the builds I like to play.

Yes,, plasma cannons are trash, and what do you expect from a legged kodiak with 2 lbx 20s

You need to play black knights. get a 7L. Put a binary a large, and 4-5 er medium lasers. make it go 87-89 kph

Just laser vomit until youre not bad. very simple.

Also eat vita ramen. I ran out last week and my stats have sunk

Eat VITARAMEN

[ScrapIron Prime]

When dropping solo, its important to be able to reposition and keep up with the pack. That Kodiak maneuvers like a brick and would have a hard time hitting 60 kph, which makes it tricky to get and keep a good field position if you don't have good coordination with team players... and solo dropping you rarely do. If you're not careful, you'll put yourself at a disadvantage for the firefight.

I don't like telling folks how to build their mechs, as the build is one of the fun parts of the game, but tactically, a brawler benefits from being either faster or working in tandem with team mates you're dropping and coordinating with. When I solo drop, I try to stick to heavies and mediums so I can better control when and where I enter the fight.

[Novakaine]

Stick with the brawl pack plain and simple.
And yes this goes for LRM'ers also.
If you have to stop to aim you're simply just plaining the wrong game.

[Jon Gotham]

Novakaine, on 15 April 2024 - 09:21 AM, said:

Stick with the brawl pack plain and simple.
And yes this goes for LRM'ers also.
If you have to stop to aim you're simply just plaining the wrong game.

I'll second this as an lrm player as well, be close-ish but one thing to note...most of my team uses my lrm boat as cover. I'm usually ending up btrawling with lrms as 2-3 assaults next to me RUN....

[ScrapIron Prime]

Novakaine, on 15 April 2024 - 09:21 AM, said:

Stick with the brawl pack plain and simple.
And yes this goes for LRM'ers also.
If you have to stop to aim you're simply just plaining the wrong game.

Yeeesss. LRMs plus lotsa ER Mediums. Lock them yourself, drill and fill.

And OMG the Thunderbolt 1 launchers are gonna be BOSS at this after the next patch.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 15 April 2024 - 11:20 AM.

[martian]

ScrapIron Prime, on 15 April 2024 - 11:19 AM, said:

And OMG the Thunderbolt 1 launchers are gonna be BOSS at this after the next patch.

Until people realize that they can equip one or more AMS.

[stonecolddevin]

MrMadguy, on 14 April 2024 - 11:03 PM, said:

It's called disfunctional matchmaker, that matches you against Tier 1 guys. Drop to Tier 4 and you'll get rid of them. Other problem - chance of getting completely useless cadet teammates will be higher.

I've read that tier 3 is especially **** because of what you end up with in terms of matchmaking. I was hoping to get into tier 2 at some point to help mitigate this but I also don't want to blame the game for what could be mitigated through my own skill/decisions.

LordNothing, on 15 April 2024 - 05:42 AM, said:

kodiak was nerfed quite heavily from its meta heyday. i cant say it was ever amazing, i do better work with a dire, but it was workable. there was also a uac10 nerf that also helped kill its best build.

also its pretty much a tall awesome in terms of how hard it is to miss. its ability to hide much of that frontal area behind a hill is its only redeeming factor.

So play into the blood asp and mad cat mkii meta? I enjoy dire wolves but the CT might as well have a target painted on it. I have a Gargoyle D I love but it's made out of paper mache.

[stonecolddevin]

Novakaine, on 15 April 2024 - 09:21 AM, said:

Stick with the brawl pack plain and simple.
And yes this goes for LRM'ers also.
If you have to stop to aim you're simply just plaining the wrong game.

This has never been an issue for me. When it is an issue, it's my own fault. I'm talking about being able to trade without getting completely smoked by certain builds or getting smoked before I even have a real chance to do any damage (even while inside the middle of the pack). My movement is proficient, I can hit what I want while moving and I'm alright with my torso rolling or whatever you call it.

[stonecolddevin]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 15 April 2024 - 02:23 AM, said:

Ye gotta actively use the coms and provide intel (mark spotted mechs 24/7) to focus at least a part of your team's attention onto what happens on the battlefield. Call strongpoints or lanes of opfor-approach ... works out usually. But in the end and often enough, one has to accept if the team is about to nascar and adapt properly (be that by sticking to the mainbulk of racemechs, by hiding until the opfor's racemechs go into lap 2 or by sacrificing yourself).

I guess the other part of my post was hoping that I could find some people to group up with. I don't have to be in pro gamer mode all the time but I'd like to play with people that are going to communicate and work out tactics on a regular basis.

[stonecolddevin]

MarcinT1981, on 14 April 2024 - 11:10 PM, said:

The problem with Kodiak-3 is that its Accel/Deccel/Turn Rate is probably the worst in the entire game, so it is not suitable for a brawler. It may work sometimes, but what matters is not what works once in a while, but what works often.
Kodiak is not a tank either, and that's also important.
Maybe change the build to something like this, it's quite strong. You have range, you can trade because it has high mounts (only AC or on the right side)
Don't look at what mechlab will say, you can shoot four AC10s, there's almost no ghost heat

kdk-3

P.S. If you want, you can increase your back armor, but no more than 4-5 points

I ran this for a long time, with ER-PPCs and did really well with it. It doesn't seem to do so hot when you're face hugging but if you have some space it seems to do pretty much what you want it to. I have a love/hate relationship with (U)ACs, they can do a lot of damage but I prefer LBX (despite the damage disparity) from a firing standpoint since I can get my shot off in one blast rather than having to train however many projectiles on a target.