19 replies to this topic

[BLXKNTRR]

Ive figured it out!

EUREKA!!!

the reason for low mounted weapons in this game is for physics!

Its to lower the center of gravity.

https://youtube.com/...zU011YnpYUow6VX

[Gasboy]

Sigh.

It's much more likely for spacing reasons. Only so many things can fit into torsos, and realistically the arms offer better weapon mobility, where as the torsos are a better platform for heavier weapons despite more limited fields of fire.

Also, have you actually looked at mechs in the mech bay? IS mechs especially. Look at Battlemasters, Thunderbolts, Shadow Hawks, Griffins and Wolverines. To add more weapons, the engineers basically bolted them onto the arms. Look at the Nova, and any other Clan mech with a power fist. All of the lasers slot into the forearm.

Maybe physics has something to do with it...

But more likely a field engineer and a mechanic got to arguing over ease of use versus ease of repair, and simultaneously said "**** it, we'll strap them onto the arms."

Edited by Gasboy, 04 May 2024 - 08:12 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

PGI could have setup to allow the arms, especially humanoid mechs, to temporarily raise their arms. In the boardgame that never had to be dealt with except on punches , while fiction had mechs raising their arms, using those hands/arms to pick things up, smash other mechs with trees, other mech limbs, etc. My version of it would be to setup a hotkey to temporarily raise one arm, like a gauss charge up, so you could fire those arm-mounted weapons then the arm would drop back down. I would not allow both arms to come up, like a mummy

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 04 May 2024 - 11:31 AM.

[Davegt27]

sometimes we can get them to fix things (back in the day)
https://mwomercs.com...uality-control/

I tell people (for the most part) to check your brain at the door when you play MWO

the biggest problem right now is hit reg (we been through this problem)

makes the game suck if half your shots are not registering

[kalashnikity]

BLXKNTRR, on 04 May 2024 - 04:38 AM, said:

Ive figured it out!

EUREKA!!!

the reason for low mounted weapons in this game is for physics!

Its to lower the center of gravity.

https://youtube.com/...zU011YnpYUow6VX

Yes, I spent a long time pondering reasons why it would be ok to have low mounted weapons, having an AC20 mounted mid torso keeps it from pushing the mech off balance as much.

Also, with actual physics there is a parabolic arc, so having a low mounted gun is not as big of a deal in longer range situations.

Plunging Fire is also a valid tactic in real life, but is something this game does not allow.

When using a scope on a gun, having a high axis over bore is an advantage (especially with slower moving bullets), as it allows a longer point blank range. Placing your scope as close as possible to the barrel is a disadvantage because you have to compensate more for bullet drop, giving you a narrow point blank range. So if IS was using a physical scope in the cockpit on an Atlas, it is perfectly reasonable to have the gun mounted as low as possible, thus allowing a longer point blank range on a slow AC20 shell.

https://en.wikipedia...int-blank_range

[KursedVixen]

cept Omnis have adjustable gyros, not to mention the neurohelmet.

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 May 2024 - 09:15 AM.

[kalashnikity]

Plunging fire can be used to shoot enemies that are hiding behind a hill, where a laser cannot be used.

Something like a slow moving AC20 would be particularly effective at this, as you can lob it over the hill, and an ultra high cockpit like on the Anny is not a disadvantage in this situation, in fact it is slightly advantageous as the second you can see the enemy you can hit them (at long range), because you would be lobbing the bullets in an arc. Wikipedia doesn't show it, but imagine enemy troops hiding behind the top of a hill, thinking they are safe because they can't see the enemy, then bullets come arcing over the hill.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Plunging_fire

Sorry, I'm too lazy to take a picture of one of my military manuals, you'll just have to use your imagination.

KursedVixen, on 05 May 2024 - 09:15 AM, said:

cept Omnis have adjustable gyros, not to mention the neurohelmet.

Gyro stablized guns are ancient WW2 tech. But apparently Lostech in Mechwarrior 5. :facepalm:

KursedVixen, on 05 May 2024 - 09:15 AM, said:

cept Omnis have adjustable gyros, not to mention the neurohelmet.

If it was "real life" every mechs would have most or all of the guns up high, for peaking over hills.

This game is based on a board game, played with imagination, I doubt the original creators ever even imagined we would be playing it as a first person shooter.

[kalashnikity]

Tarl Cabot, on 04 May 2024 - 11:29 AM, said:

PGI could have setup to allow the arms, especially humanoid mechs, to temporarily raise their arms. In the boardgame that never had to be dealt with except on punches , while fiction had mechs raising their arms, using those hands/arms to pick things up, smash other mechs with trees, other mech limbs, etc. My version of it would be to setup a hotkey to temporarily raise one arm, like a gauss charge up, so you could fire those arm-mounted weapons then the arm would drop back down. I would not allow both arms to come up, like a mummy

I've pondered that.

Possibly even have an accuracy penalty somewhat like jump jets but not so severe- to make it functional within close combat ranges- for hill poking at close range.

Make it toggle like weapon doors, and with the accuracy penalty nobody would want to use it past 270 yards or risk a complete miss.

[KursedVixen]

kalashnikity, on 05 May 2024 - 09:23 AM, said:

Gyro stablized guns are ancient WW2 tech. But apparently Lostech in Mechwarrior 5. :facepalm:

Ancient tech sure, but not all tanks had it during the war also i'm pretty sure laser gyros and fiber are fairly new and smaller.

Edited by KursedVixen, 05 May 2024 - 09:34 AM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

on many mechs that have their weapon mount on the attached to the side or bottom of an arm in Lore is because that weapon can be detached and dropped. this would drop weight and improve mobility in that arm (for mech fisticuffs). say a weapon system was destroyed then you can just drop it instead of lugging around all that extra tonnage.

for integrated weapons others have already explained that. sadly MWO does not allow you to lift your mech's arms to shoulder level.

[LordNothing]

you know how many lights i killed in my dire wolf/king crab/etc because they decided to stand right in front of my big gun to attack me? lots. yea dont stand there.

KursedVixen, on 05 May 2024 - 09:32 AM, said:

Ancient tech sure, but not all tanks had it during the war also i'm pretty sure laser gyros and fiber are fairly new and smaller.

if we made every weapon in the game like real life hardware, every weapon would be instagib. real military hardware op. even in ww2. hell even going back to the civil war. so much instideath.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 May 2024 - 01:02 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Weapon location on the mech was meaningless in BT dice rolls games other than modifying your chance to hit. Mech aesthetic design trumped any actual real world functionality. Then came the real time shooter mwo and all of a sudden those whacky designs came back to bite the devs on that patooty. Those low arm mounts all of a sudden were at a huge disadvantage over mechs with torso high mounts that only had to expose a sliver to shoot whereas the low slung arm weapons forced those mech out into the open to shoot. Years and years of quirk adjustments have tried to close the gap but torso mounts especially high mounts are still king.

[kalashnikity]

KursedVixen, on 05 May 2024 - 09:32 AM, said:

Ancient tech sure, but not all tanks had it during the war also i'm pretty sure laser gyros and fiber are fairly new and smaller.

"Red dot" sights were used in battleships in WW2, and had automatic lead calculation, also apparently lostech now.

And by the end of WW2 the B-29 had remote controlled antiaircraft guns that automatically calculated lead, Japanese fighters had no chance against it.

Meep Meep, on 05 May 2024 - 02:19 PM, said:

Weapon location on the mech was meaningless in BT dice rolls games other than modifying your chance to hit. Mech aesthetic design trumped any actual real world functionality. Then came the real time shooter mwo and all of a sudden those whacky designs came back to bite the devs on that patooty. Those low arm mounts all of a sudden were at a huge disadvantage over mechs with torso high mounts that only had to expose a sliver to shoot whereas the low slung arm weapons forced those mech out into the open to shoot. Years and years of quirk adjustments have tried to close the gap but torso mounts especially high mounts are still king.

Mechs like the clan hunchback are terrifyingly good at peaking.

[KursedVixen]

VeeOt Dragon, on 05 May 2024 - 09:36 AM, said:

on many mechs that have their weapon mount on the attached to the side or bottom of an arm in Lore is because that weapon can be detached and dropped. this would drop weight and improve mobility in that arm (for mech fisticuffs). say a weapon system was destroyed then you can just drop it instead of lugging around all that extra tonnage.

for integrated weapons others have already explained that. sadly MWO does not allow you to lift your mech's arms to shoulder level.

the whole swapping parts thing was mostly an omnimech benifit, not so true with battlemechs...

With omnimechs lets say you lose and arm , as long as the logistics or production are avalible you can just order or use a new arm pod, in some cases you don't even need to use the original, it's said that because IS omnis are based on the same tech as clan you can put an IS omnipod into a clan mech, dunno how that would work with a franken omni (Think a NOva with black hawk KU arms. this is part of the benfit of omnimechs and also why during the invasion the clans maintained so much momentum. they didn't need to spend weeks waiting for spare parts for the most part as they just used spare omnipods or switched to a diffrent weapon, the faster repair turnout for omnimechs let the clans keep up their brisk pace.

Edited by KursedVixen, 06 May 2024 - 11:20 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

its not so much an Omnimech thing, you aren't dropping the whole arm just the weapon itself. the main reason you have to replace that weapon with another of the same kind (say a Ballistic) has to do with the targeting computer and those systems than anything mechanical if i remember my Lore right. say you have an IS AC/20 on your mech's arm, well you are now out of ammo or its to damaged to fire. well an AC/20 is a LOT of weight, you drop that weight and you might get a little more speed and maneuverability out of your mech, not much but some. there are also mechs with actual hand held weapons like the Charger and the Phoenix Hawk that the mech can let go of (auto-detaching the power leads) and drop.

[KursedVixen]

VeeOt Dragon, on 07 May 2024 - 07:27 AM, said:

its not so much an Omnimech thing, you aren't dropping the whole arm just the weapon itself. the main reason you have to replace that weapon with another of the same kind (say a Ballistic) has to do with the targeting computer and those systems than anything mechanical if i remember my Lore right. say you have an IS AC/20 on your mech's arm, well you are now out of ammo or its to damaged to fire. well an AC/20 is a LOT of weight, you drop that weight and you might get a little more speed and maneuverability out of your mech, not much but some. there are also mechs with actual hand held weapons like the Charger and the Phoenix Hawk that the mech can let go of (auto-detaching the power leads) and drop.

Don't see why you need any connections for a melee weapon

[VeeOt Dragon]

i was talking about those mechs that have pistol-like weapons, they always seem to be energy weapons so need some kind of power feed. (the charger and the Poenix Hawk both have these sorts of mounts.)

[Gasboy]

KursedVixen, on 07 May 2024 - 01:10 PM, said:

Don't see why you need any connections for a melee weapon

Why have an axe when you can have a rocket-powered axe? Only reasoning I can see for connections is to feed power/fuel.

[Gasboy]

VeeOt Dragon, on 07 May 2024 - 01:47 PM, said:

i was talking about those mechs that have pistol-like weapons, they always seem to be energy weapons so need some kind of power feed. (the charger and the Poenix Hawk both have these sorts of mounts.)

I love those things. Battlemaster should also have that for it's right arm. Stinger too, if they ever make the game (probably in whatever the MWO sequel is).

EDIT: Wasp too, and possibly the Valkyrie give it's taken from the same source as Wasp, Stinger and Phoenix Hawk.

EDIT2: Griffin too! And Wolverine.

Edited by Gasboy, 08 May 2024 - 05:44 AM.

[simon1812]

In lore mechs can rise their arms, stretch them out forward, even the ...non-humanoid mechs can do that and go as far as rise their arms above their body kind of like scorpions do when in an aggressive stance, I think the firemoth is one such an example not sure , might need to look that up.

It is a shame no mechwarrior game thay I know off, permitt mechs to do that...it is a no-brainer.

Edited by simon1812, 08 May 2024 - 10:08 AM.