33 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

LapisMaddog, on 21 May 2024 - 09:12 PM, said:

sometimes you can just sit behind a wall and farm damage. So at best lock ons are a lot easier and at worst doing literally everything for you.

Well, to be fair, sometimes you get to farm damage with any weapon.
And at worst, lock ons sometimes do literally nothing for you.

They suck. You don't see good players avoiding them because they are easy, they avoid them because they suck.
It is what it is, but let's be real.

Edited by feeWAIVER, 21 May 2024 - 09:21 PM.

[Tiy0s]

We became aware of the tracking issue after we buffed the velocity in April patch.

It hadn't been encountered before because there was no weapon that checked all the boxes for the issue to occur.
- Using LRM flight tracking/logic(streaks don't use the same flight paths)
- Higher velocity
- Needed to be accurate inside 180m(with clan LRMs, the spread is so high you wouldn't notice a lack of accuracy anyways if you're just spraying point blank. A few missiles flying past wouldn't be a big issue)

Against a target up close that is small enough, or even just moving laterally fast enough, thunderbolts will move quicker than their tracking algorithm can correct their movements. This wouldn't usually be a problem against standstill targets unless you were trying some extreme angles but it could happen against enemies strafing you.

I haven't been paying much attention to balancing this month except for the Bullshark, but when I poked my head in to Cauldron what I essentially got was that the goal wasn't to nerf thunderbolts but to bring the velocity to just low enough that you can reliably hit your target. I'm not sure if there are more buffs planned to counteract it.

[Novakaine]

Tiy0s, on 21 May 2024 - 10:51 PM, said:

We became aware of the tracking issue after we buffed the velocity in April patch.

It hadn't been encountered before because there was no weapon that checked all the boxes for the issue to occur.
- Using LRM flight tracking/logic(streaks don't use the same flight paths)
- Higher velocity
- Needed to be accurate inside 180m(with clan LRMs, the spread is so high you wouldn't notice a lack of accuracy anyways if you're just spraying point blank. A few missiles flying past wouldn't be a big issue)

Against a target up close that is small enough, or even just moving laterally fast enough, thunderbolts will move quicker than their tracking algorithm can correct their movements. This wouldn't usually be a problem against standstill targets unless you were trying some extreme angles but it could happen against enemies strafing you.

I haven't been paying much attention to balancing this month except for the Bullshark, but when I poked my head in to Cauldron what I essentially got was that the goal wasn't to nerf thunderbolts but to bring the velocity to just low enough that you can reliably hit your target. I'm not sure if there are more buffs planned to counteract it.

Thanks for the insight.

[BLXKNTRR]

its really not that big of a difference on velocity

[VeeOt Dragon]

LapisMaddog, on 21 May 2024 - 09:12 PM, said:

You don’t have to use tags I think all they do is boost allies lock on times, and with lasers if you want to accomplish anything you have to hit the same component with some consistency. Unlike tags which can hit any component and gets the same benefit, and you also have to expose with lasers which means you can damage spread, use jjs, abuse mounts, etc to perform better but with lock ons you can just sit behind a wall and farm damage. So at best lock ons are a lot easier and at worst doing literally everything for you. Also losing lock, missiles hitting cover and ams are all game mechanics you cannot counter with skill they will happen no matter what skill level you are, so they are meaningless in a discussion about skill requirements for weapons.

even if neglect things you can't do anything about (AMS, losing lock, terrain) it seems to me that you haven't played many locking weapons at all. even say you have the best possible conditions, a good LOS with the target and it has no cover nearby to dodge to by the time the snails arrive. ok now even with Artemis (they only work on LOS anyway) and the target not having ECM you have to hold your crosshair not just in the box but in the exact center of the box and keep in there till you get the lock. now that you have the lock you fire and hope you can hold it till they get to the target. in the amount of time it takes you to get a lock in the first place (if the target is slow enough that you can keep them there, its actually rather difficult to keep a lock on a fast light mech if its under about 300m from you) many mechs these days can completely core you out before you even fire. even with a lock you have to keep inside that box with your crosshairs unless you want to start all over again. now with IDF you can do that without showing yourself but it is going to take longer to get that lock than it would with LOS exacerbating the troubles with lock ons.

i still think with all that it takes more skill to use well than just pointing at the target and clicking, maybe lead it a bit if using non-locking weapons. you can also fire and dodge (something that is a bit tougher to do with locking weapons. now the maneuvering is skill the weapon isn't. at the same time locking weapons do have a much lower entry skill than other weapons. to use them well at higher tiers than 4 it takes skill, let alone to solo with them at t1.

[martian]

Gorgo7, on 21 May 2024 - 11:28 AM, said:

So what cry baby with the devs ear complained that the Thunderbolts velocity were OP?
Come out and admit you were the sniveler whoever you are!

The Thunderbolt hits the scene with a minimum useful velocity for an LRM weapon system and within a month its time to nerf that OP Thunderbolt because...because?

How about LRM's at 450 m sec
Thunderbolts at 300 m sec
and Streaks at 300 m sec.

It's not like everyone is using seeking missiles.
In fact I bet the numbers would show they are the least used weapons in the game.
Why even bother with missile hard points? Only the most unusual and esoteric Mechs with missile quirks up the wazoo make it onto the battle field.

All others rust.

Why do not you give Thunderbolts two or three weeks to see how the latest game patch has affected them in the game?

[SolCrusher]

My play time with the TBM's. I played them a bit pre buff but thought they sucked so I didn't play them a ton. Gotta use missile quirked mechs to make it worth it.

Then the buff happened and played them a lot. Didn't really need missile quirked mechs. I didn't really experience this whole tracking issue. I could nuke lights no problem. Now?

Post nerf. Lights be running invulnerable to everything again. Should have picked, either spread or slowing the speed, not both. I haven't played TBM's a ton post nerf, but they feel slow and pointless.

So barely a 50% hit rate, some eh damage.
THUNDERBOLT 5 65 10,281 4,926 47.91% 08:41:32 21,841 THUNDERBOLT 10 42 2,868 1,402 48.88% 05:05:27 11,420 THUNDERBOLT 15 7 349 132 37.82% 00:59:05 1,826 THUNDERBOLT 20 47 1,473 702 47.66% 05:39:54 12,375
Compared to my MRM stats, direct fire missiles seem to be a better option. MRM 10 55 1,417 788 55.61% 06:21:09 6,748 MRM 20 56 1,276 621 48.67% 06:53:20 9,853 MRM 30 38 369 198 53.66% 04:08:15 4,595 MRM 40 17 171 97 56.73% 01:47:46 2,839
To get those TBM's to work, I field a TAG, Active Probe, and a Command Console. I want locked targets immediately, not years from now. That's on top of the investment of how heavy that weapon system is.

[XboxOriginal]

IMO thunderbolts are incredibly op. after i started playing a few months ago i got smoked sooo often by them, so i started using them and they 100% need to be nerfed more, i just sit and kill people with no issues taking no damage to the point its not even fun really

[Novakaine]

Seriously?

[martian]

Novakaine, on 26 May 2024 - 10:01 AM, said:

Seriously?

Well, if you catch somebody in the open, with short range loadout and no AMS ...

[SolCrusher]

I've found that I'm now doing great amounts of damage. Just using the MAD4HP with Streaks and TBMs. It's fun, those poor little guys that don't check your loadout before charging head first into the TBM lobber.

Surprise! Got 4 Streak 4's just for you, oh what's that now you're running away. Well take the TBMS now too.