14 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

I don't know if it can be managed with the same system that creates that variable snowstorm on Frozen City Night, but it would be interesting to play on a map that has pulses of variable heat. A frozen map with volcanic geysers, for example, where hot water erupts periodically, adding passive heat generation (a la lava,) then increasing cooling efficiency as the water disperses into the atmosphere and cools down the ambient temperature.

Or an industrial watershed map where wastewater from a factory creates hot and cold water flows periodically as the factory dumps its reservoirs. Stuff like that.

I think it could create interesting play by giving both sides a window for action and reaction depending on the heat efficiency of their build.

Edited by Void Angel, 29 May 2024 - 03:10 PM.

[martian]

Nice idea, but I am afraid that it would be too difficult for PGI to implement.

[Void Angel]

martian, on 03 June 2024 - 07:59 AM, said:

Nice idea, but I am afraid that it would be too difficult for PGI to implement.

Oh, that depends on whether they can roll it into whatever system creates the variable snowstorm from River City Night. If they've got to do reworks of the temperature system, or build new software to get it done, they may not have the resources - but it never hurts to ask!

[martian]

Void Angel, on 03 June 2024 - 08:02 AM, said:

Oh, that depends on whether they can roll it into whatever system creates the variable snowstorm from River City Night. If they've got to do reworks of the temperature system, or build new software to get it done, they may not have the resources - but it never hurts to ask!

Well, maybe it would curb some big laser alphas.

[Void Angel]

martian, on 03 June 2024 - 08:23 AM, said:

Well, maybe it would curb some big laser alphas.

Wouldn't curb or encourage them, overall - but it would make people choose when to engage, creating a kind of push and pull where cooler or hotter weapons had an advantage.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Void Angel, on 03 June 2024 - 10:08 AM, said:

Wouldn't curb or encourage them, overall - but it would make people choose when to engage, creating a kind of push and pull where cooler or hotter weapons had an advantage.

Due to how ambient temperatures are additive/subtractive instead of multiplicative, mechs with more heat sinks typically benefit more DPS wise on hotter maps than "cooler" designs (since they lose less % of dissipation).

Honestly I think I've come to the point where I think ambient temperatures don't really play into the game in a meaningful way, you don't really take ambient heat into account when planning around maps even in organized play and even if you did like some did in MW4 it typically makes the game more one-dimensional since it impacted pacing of the match (ie rushes were more common due to range not being able to do enough meaningful damage before the close).

tl;dr I don't think ambient temperatures actually add anything other than maybe a way to soft punish stronger positions and well that would require better map design on PGI's part which has never been their strong suit.

[Void Angel]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 03 June 2024 - 01:50 PM, said:

tl;dr I don't think ambient temperatures actually add anything other than maybe a way to soft punish stronger positions and well that would require better map design on PGI's part which has never been their strong suit.

Well, they kinda don't, that's true - and you're right about different 'mechs being affected to a greater degree. A lot of that, though, is that the ambient map temperature bonuses aren't very strong, in order to avoid making some builds unplayable. So you don't see truly significant differences from map to map unless you're running super-hot or standing in lava. But making parts of the map periodically become like standing in lava would be significant, and could make for more interesting map design. Like a real swamp - mostly shallow water with some drier and higher ground - with an active volcano that heated the water to boiling every so often. Or a local pulsar that imparts heat via cancer-inducing levels of radiation to everything not in the shade every five minutes. You know, et cetera, et cetera.

Dunno if it's do-able. Some of those ideas I threw out sound like they might be pretty resource-intensive. But It'd at least be fun to try.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Void Angel, on 03 June 2024 - 02:18 PM, said:

But making parts of the map periodically become like standing in lava would be significant, and could make for more interesting map design.

So the problem with this is just like the old fog/storm that would roll in occasionally on old Frozen, there was a overwhelming distaste for it because it had such a drastic effect for such a random thing. If this game were like Battlefield (or PvE) where it was more about as much chaos on a battlefield as possible it might make more sense, but given the no-respawn nature of the game, I'm kinda glad things don't swing wildly like that. IDK, I'm just not a fan of random effects that can swing a battle significantly like that.

That said, I highly doubt it's possible to have that dynamic of effects, pretty sure it's relegated to locational effects that are permanent like old caldera or Caustic.

[KursedVixen]

Spaghetti code probably makes this impossible outside of certain ground tiles.

[Void Angel]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 03 June 2024 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'm just not a fan of random effects that can swing a battle significantly like that.

Randomly, no. Heck no! It needs to be timed, with visual cues so that people can see it happening and plan; that's what would make it fun. The snowstorm is different because it limits information - I rather liked it because it made it worthwhile to use alternate vision modes a bit, but I bet you that people figured out how to disable it in the game engine, like the fog/trees in Viridian. Giving a predictable window where you'll need to move out of certain ground makes for an added tactical variation without making people feel blind.

Or it could be just another thing that confuses the potatos. I think it'd be fun to try.

But it's all hypothetical because you're probably right, and this would require more resources than are allocated to the game right now in order to make it happen.

Edited by Void Angel, 06 June 2024 - 10:52 AM.

[martian]

Void Angel, on 04 June 2024 - 12:32 PM, said:

Randomly, no. Heck no! It needs to be timed, with visual cues so that people can see it happening and plan; that's what would make it fun. The snowstorm is different because it limits information - I rather liked it because it made it worthwhile to use alternate vision modes a bit, but I bet you people figured out how to disable it in the game engine, like the fog/trees in Viridian. Giving a predictable window where you'll need to move out of certain ground makes for an added tactical variation without making people feel blind.

Or it could be just another thing that confuses the potatos. I think it'd be fun to try.

But it's all hypothetical because you're probably right, and this would require more resources than are allocated to the game right now in order to make it happen.

I always remember this part of the rules:

Quote

By modifying the user.cfg file players may be able to tweak settings not directly available to the player using the options provided in the game client. The purpose of this user.cfg file is to allow players some degree of freedom toward further maximizing or fine-tuning the performance of their game client. However, we do not provide technical support for user.cfg changes, nor can we provide technical support for issues with the game client when a modified user.cfg file is being used. This is due to the amount of potential variables a heavily modified user.cfg can introduce, making it extremely difficult to narrow down the cause of an issue.


Beyond its intended purpose, it is also possible that changes to the user.cfg may sometimes be able provide an unfair or otherwise prohibited advantage to a player outside the spirit or scope of what the user.cfg file is intended to be used for.
We reserve the right to remove any functionality from the user.cfg as we see fit.
Generally, if it has been determined that a player has modified their user.cfg in such a way to gain an unfair or otherwise prohibited advantage outside the spirit or scope of what the user.cfg file is intended to be used for, they will not be subject to serious moderation actions for such behavior.

Adding for example some "volcanic geysers" as a clue that some change is going to happen? I bet some "very competetive" players would edit them out as not to spoil their aim or something like that.

[Void Angel]

That's possible for visual effects, but not for changes in heat - and if they edited away the visual cues, they'd have to work harder to avoid getting toasted.

[martian]

Void Angel, on 06 June 2024 - 10:51 AM, said:

That's possible for visual effects, but not for changes in heat - and if they edited away the visual cues, they'd have to work harder to avoid getting toasted.

I guess they would find some safe sniper nest and they would stay there for the rest of the game.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Void Angel, on 04 June 2024 - 12:32 PM, said:

Randomly, no. Heck no! It needs to be timed, with visual cues so that people can see it happening and plan; that's what would make it fun. The snowstorm is different because it limits information - I rather liked it because it made it worthwhile to use alternate vision modes a bit, but I bet you that people figured out how to disable it in the game engine, like the fog/trees in Viridian. Giving a predictable window where you'll need to move out of certain ground makes for an added tactical variation without making people feel blind.

If it's timed I suppose that is fine, not really sure whether that would be a good impact on general or comp play given how timing depend so many things are but who knows. My only concern would it having the opposite impact of the desired result, that being making gameplay more static rather than dynamic.

I don't really care about the vision mode stuff though, it's not really an engaging game mechanic even when thermal was the way to play (predator vision era), especially for the work to make those work I assume that comes into play given those are I assume unique textures and such. I like the idea of smoke (would need to block radar too)/flash grenades esque mechanics but not something that is map wide, it needs to be relegated to specific spots or player dictated.

As for visual cues, not something you would want to edit out provided they are subtle but if they work on timings, might be something you could edit out if you are able to remember the timings.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 06 June 2024 - 01:02 PM.

[Void Angel]

I wish there were more reasons to use the vision modes, but it's not something that'll make or break the game at this point. Not everyone wants to use NODs in their Mechwarrior experience, and that's totally fine.