265 replies to this topic

[Papaspud]

The giant alphas have turned this game into hidewarrior, not sure how or if they can fix this, but it is now to the point- the game really isn't as fun. It is killing the game, at least from what I see.

[Gasboy]

Killing how?

What metric do you use to determine a game is being killed?

[pattonesque]

Gasboy, on 13 June 2024 - 06:04 AM, said:

Killing how?

What metric do you use to determine a game is being killed?

what I think is happening here is that he had about a 1.2 W/LR in March and April and a .85 W/LR in May and June

so two bad months in a row is convincing him the game is dying

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Alpha size really doesnt matter, the game is no respawn with no way to heal. People will be scared to get a scratch regardless of alpha size if they have a huge range differential. X-Pulse and Beam lasers could be the meta in QP and people would still be scared and hiding all the time.

[Gasboy]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 June 2024 - 07:07 AM, said:

Alpha size really doesnt matter, the game is no respawn with no way to heal. People will be scared to get a scratch regardless of alpha size if they have a huge range differential. X-Pulse and Beam lasers could be the meta in QP and people would still be scared and hiding all the time.

But beam lazors are scary!

pattonesque, on 13 June 2024 - 06:42 AM, said:

what I think is happening here is that he had about a 1.2 W/LR in March and April and a .85 W/LR in May and June

so two bad months in a row is convincing him the game is dying

I'm hoping they say it's the declining player base. Then I get to ask, "But how do you it's alpha's that are causing that?"

[Papaspud]

What I see= my friends list of many, many people....hardly anyone is playing, takes 5 minutes to get a match, and they are rarely close to even. Take that however you want. Carry on....

[martian]

I remember when overheating Stalker with some PPCs was considered to be a big problem.

And now ...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Papaspud, on 13 June 2024 - 07:27 AM, said:

What I see= my friends list of many, many people....hardly anyone is playing, takes 5 minutes to get a match, and they are rarely close to even. Take that however you want. Carry on....

If you think "fixing" alphas is the way to fix that then idk what to tell you. There isn't a single factor that contributes to the issues, it's multi-faceted. It's a 11+ year old game that is on life support. Small population, 12v12, game mechanics that contribute to snowballing, etc, etc. Alphas are just a cop out argument, the game has a lot more issues than alphas that are keeping the population low.

[Gasboy]

Papaspud, on 13 June 2024 - 07:27 AM, said:

What I see= my friends list of many, many people....hardly anyone is playing, takes 5 minutes to get a match, and they are rarely close to even. Take that however you want. Carry on....

Yeah, lots on my friends list have stopped playing. But a third of them were logged in as of yesterday.

The game's had a steady-ish population, with a slight decline, which is expected from an older game like MWO. World of Tanks, CoD, and Battlefield suffer from the exact same issue. CoD and Battlefield are refreshed every few years with new games, which is how their populwtions stay higher for longer.

I guarantee you it's not alphas that are the problem. It's a 12 year old game with a small budget, and next to no marketing. It's clunky and has long lost it's shine. There are newer, triple A games with single and multiplayer modes that have far fewer player numbers than MWO, which should indicate the level of its continuing success despite its niche position.

[feeWAIVER]

Alphas probably are too high.

[Gasboy]

feeWAIVER, on 13 June 2024 - 10:58 AM, said:

Alphas probably are too high.

There needs to be a definition of how high is "too high", as well as proof of alphas being too high. And what is expected to make them not too high.

[East Indy]

Papaspud, on 13 June 2024 - 05:55 AM, said:

The giant alphas have turned this game into hidewarrior, not sure how or if they can fix this, but it is now to the point- the game really isn't as fun. It is killing the game, at least from what I see.

I hear you. You're looking for a 'Mech sim in a country of Robot CounterStrike enthusiasts.

There are a lot of ways -- the bottom line is to limit downrange per 0.5-1 seconds to about 20-25 points, and challenge players to stay on target over 3-5 seconds while encouraging multiple weapon systems. Boxing match versus duel at 10 paces.

That said, it's gonna require the political leverage of a new game and a dev with design smarts and guts to go all-in on a differently paced game. Not sure of that's PGI.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

East Indy, on 13 June 2024 - 02:27 PM, said:

I hear you. You're looking for a 'Mech sim in a country of Robot CounterStrike enthusiasts.

What exactly wrong with robot Counterstrike exactly? People talk about wanting a tactical/thinking man's shooter yet throw around Counterstrike like it somehow doesn't meet that criteria or is some perjorative.

[Gasboy]

East Indy, on 13 June 2024 - 02:27 PM, said:

That said, it's gonna require the political leverage of a new game and a dev with design smarts and guts to go all-in on a differently paced game. Not sure of that's PGI.

It's called Mechwarrior 5. Also by PGI.

[Risen Trash]

I agree that lower alphas would probably make for more aggressive play, with the risks of bold positioning diminished compared to the payoff.

But then again, the payoff for bold positioning would be diminished as well. It becomes less important who flanks, who takes the high ground, who shoots, and who hides. Every match a little longer, every TTK extended.

But with our numbers, frankly longer matches make for longer wait times. This might not be so bad in peak hours, but in the off hours the wait times already kind of suck. I don't know that longer TTKs would make the game more fun, either. If your shooting at a smart twisting opponent, they're not going down easy as is, and with still more TTK? The good players will just be chewing you up more slowly. Isn't it better to just get into the next match?

A lot of new weapons/mechs in the game, but as always they are countered by good twisting. I only on the rare occasion am able to one-shot a head or rear ST of a light, usually while they're shut down. Would you believe MWO doubled the armor values over the old TT numbers?

Assaults and Crusaders can take a few of those alphas, and good assault pilots still twist when they can. The rest of us have no choice. Twirling, always twirling...

Edited for typos and clarity

Edited by Risen Trash, 13 June 2024 - 07:58 PM.

[pattonesque]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 June 2024 - 03:57 PM, said:

What exactly wrong with robot Counterstrike exactly? People talk about wanting a tactical/thinking man's shooter yet throw around Counterstrike like it somehow doesn't meet that criteria or is some perjorative.

robot counterstrike = people hit what they aim at and that makes him sad

[Davegt27]

I sort of agree with the OP

but--but when the player numbers get low everything becomes a problem

lucky that the free mechs, mechs, quirks, and the caldron, produce enough hype to keep the game going

[Void Angel]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 June 2024 - 07:07 AM, said:

Alpha size really doesnt matter, the game is no respawn with no way to heal. People will be scared to get a scratch regardless of alpha size if they have a huge range differential. X-Pulse and Beam lasers could be the meta in QP and people would still be scared and hiding all the time.

The old joke from open beta still applies:
"How do you engage the reverse gear on an Atlas?"
"Shoot it with a Medium Laser."

Yet alphas are something of a buggaboo for people - because you notice when that Fafnir puts 100 points of damage on your CT - they're also potentially part of a problem. After all, a high-alpha trading 'mech can blast you and disappear back into cover potentially quickly, so it can feel like DPS builds are less viable.

It's not true, in my experience - some of my best performers (Clan or IS) are dakka builds. But it feels that way, and in lower tiers where a lot of players aren't doing the things that I do in a match, it's entirely possible that alpha builds are overpowered. In the T1-T3 matches I play, though, I find that balance is pretty ok. I could do with lower alphas, both for balance and for the vibes, but it's not a critical issue (just something to watch out for.)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Void Angel, on 14 June 2024 - 10:52 AM, said:

Yet alphas are something of a buggaboo for people - because you notice when that Fafnir puts 100 points of damage on your CT - they're also potentially part of a problem. After all, a high-alpha trading 'mech can blast you and disappear back into cover potentially quickly, so it can feel like DPS builds are less viable.

It's not true, in my experience - some of my best performers (Clan or IS) are dakka builds. But it feels that way, and in lower tiers where a lot of players aren't doing the things that I do in a match, it's entirely possible that alpha builds are overpowered.

This is partially why I wasn't a fan of HAG40s doing 40 damage and am still not a fan of heavy lasers having as high of damage with cooldown/duration as a balancing mechanism because it is problematic in lower tiers. There is a curve that probably should be respected for tonnage to damage investment. Where that curve sits I'm not sure, but heavy lasers and old HAGs sit above that curve and were part of the reason they also drop off at higher tiers as well. It's a symptom of problematic designed weapons.

[Void Angel]

PS: "Robot CounterStrike?" Is that the new slur? I guess when Hawken went under, the professionally dissatisfied were really sad - kinda like MMO players when Hello Kitty Island Adventure folded. Thank goodness they have a new cheap generalization to fall back on!

PPS: Counterstrike is exactly like people complaining about high alphas perceive MWO to be. If you are caught out of position and in the range of an enemy's fire, you're going to be dead very quickly. Players can and do run around fast, but it comes at the expense of noise and accuracy, so most of a match consists of watching fields of fire and moving slowly, trying to discern the enemy's location and react while not being exposed.