77 replies to this topic

[Sneaky Snek]

Brawling is actually becoming even more meta. Even in Competitive mwo.
Literally just don't feed yourselves into the snipers, if you get within 300m you win.

https://youtu.be/pLf...kYwyOM2iCYAWUz8

[LordNothing]

brawling is something you do not something you build for. if you build a brawler, you will get rangy maps and teams that dig in just inside erppc range. best you can do in that case is stay low and watch for squirrels that go for your snipers and lermers. eventually you will survive long enough to see a close quarters battle. provided the rest of your team doesn't lose trades because there aren't enough on the line. then it becomes brawly anyway, just not in a good way. hardest thing for brawlers to do imho is to operate in the worst possible situations. in other words, build accordingly, eg throw on some mid range weapons.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 November 2024 - 01:26 AM.

[DarkBazerker]

This boat has already sailed for me, but I will offer some hope, if you want to call it that. Try an convince PGI of 8v8 and smaller maps. while not the best solution it will force most of the issues out, that being said I think PGI wants the game the way it is now so good luck with that.

Edited by DarkBazerker, 05 November 2024 - 03:20 PM.

[LordNothing]

DarkBazerker, on 05 November 2024 - 03:19 PM, said:

This boat has already sailed for me, but I will offer some hope, if you want to call it that. Try an convince PGI of 8v8 and smaller maps. while not the best solution it will force most of the issues out, that being said I think PGI wants the game the way it is now so good luck with that.

i kind of like 8v8. eq can bring out the brawlers depending on map/mode/etc. the current rash of gluefooted teams will pass eventually when the lootbag ends.

[plodder]

LordNothing, on 05 November 2024 - 01:24 AM, said:

brawling is something you do not something you build for. if you build a brawler, you will get rangy maps and teams that dig in just inside erppc range. best you can do in that case is stay low and watch for squirrels that go for your snipers and lermers. eventually you will survive long enough to see a close quarters battle. provided the rest of your team doesn't lose trades because there aren't enough on the line. then it becomes brawly anyway, just not in a good way. hardest thing for brawlers to do imho is to operate in the worst possible situations. in other words, build accordingly, eg throw on some mid range weapons.

I enjoy a dual Gauss rifle with either 2 Lrg Pulse or possibly a 2 ER PPC build which works decently in most aspects of the game if still under powered. Gauss is a great brawling weapon if used correctly, though it does not have the DPS standard Brawling mechs standardly have. That is why I sacrifice the ER PPCs for Large Pulse. It is punishing to brawl against the heat efficiency of pinpoint Gauss and raking LG Pulse in close quarters. Even effective against lights in the right hands.

I only do this occasionally now and the arrow usually goes up, but it is fun. Kodiak 3, Dire Whale, both with big Mark 6 or whatever is desired.

But still the Atlas is my favorite brawler when I venture there. I am low tier now, but haven't always been so. GL HF

[Random white dude]

Sneaky Snek, on 04 November 2024 - 03:35 PM, said:

Brawling is actually becoming even more meta. Even in Competitive mwo.
Literally just don't feed yourselves into the snipers, if you get within 300m you win.

https://youtu.be/pLf...kYwyOM2iCYAWUz8

That's a P2W mech though

[LordNothing]

plodder, on 06 November 2024 - 11:00 PM, said:

I enjoy a dual Gauss rifle with either 2 Lrg Pulse or possibly a 2 ER PPC build which works decently in most aspects of the game if still under powered. Gauss is a great brawling weapon if used correctly, though it does not have the DPS standard Brawling mechs standardly have. That is why I sacrifice the ER PPCs for Large Pulse. It is punishing to brawl against the heat efficiency of pinpoint Gauss and raking LG Pulse in close quarters. Even effective against lights in the right hands.

I only do this occasionally now and the arrow usually goes up, but it is fun. Kodiak 3, Dire Whale, both with big Mark 6 or whatever is desired.

But still the Atlas is my favorite brawler when I venture there. I am low tier now, but haven't always been so. GL HF

hgauss has an extended long range which makes it quasi-useful at mid range, but you are not getting your ammo's worth when you use it at midrange, so you need to pack extra. the uac20 also has a similar profile, its about as good as an ac10 at ac10 optimal ranges, but its low velocity makes it hard to aim at midrange, and the extra ammo makes you a tinderbox (of course srm bombers have that problem too). but id rather have a sub-optimal option than no option at all.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 November 2024 - 01:49 PM.

[kalashnikity]

Meep Meep, on 12 October 2024 - 10:48 AM, said:

If you ask a tippy top jarls player if brawling is still viable they will roll out in some type of brawler build and farm the enemy team. For lesser t1 mortals brawling is a wee bit harder because aim is good at t1 and usually there is overwatch on the brawling areas. It's still around in the lower tiers because everything works way down there.

I just lost half a tier bar trying to brawl in my old builds. Blue laser this, PPC that.

Too many maps that are too memorized.

I've been saying we need random map generation, for a long time.

On the plus side, my tried and true sniper builds are doing well...

[Bassault]

You're wrong. Plenty of brawl assaults are viable in qp, some are even overpowered beyond anything else that can be played. https://youtu.be/pLf...OQahHcDsLYZGE8o

The cauldron has also disclosed that this atlas variant has some of the highest stats along the top 10 of the mechs every season. Slow assault mechs also take no skill to play, you can't really position because you're too slow too, and you just click at things that take up the width of your screen. In my opinion, these mechs should be weak because they don't really take skill and they are unfun to fight as they usually kill you instantly.

[kalashnikity]

Bassault, on 08 November 2024 - 05:59 PM, said:

You're wrong. Plenty of brawl assaults are viable in qp, some are even overpowered beyond anything else that can be played. https://youtu.be/pLf...OQahHcDsLYZGE8o

The cauldron has also disclosed that this atlas variant has some of the highest stats along the top 10 of the mechs every season. Slow assault mechs also take no skill to play, you can't really position because you're too slow too, and you just click at things that take up the width of your screen. In my opinion, these mechs should be weak because they don't really take skill and they are unfun to fight as they usually kill you instantly.

more of that "no skill" BS

The skill is in getting into a good position and surviving long enough to be useful, and in many matches that will only be at the very end of the match when the brawling starts in earnest.
Even then, most matches you will be useless for most of the match because you can't engage at long or even mid range.

With that said, if you do survive the sniper gauntlet long enough to get in a good position, and you do end up in a brawl, you will be brutal. Atlas is a great brawler and MRM, SNPP, and AC20 are a great combo.

[foamyesque]

Bassault, on 08 November 2024 - 05:59 PM, said:

You're wrong. Plenty of brawl assaults are viable in qp, some are even overpowered beyond anything else that can be played. https://youtu.be/pLf...OQahHcDsLYZGE8o

The cauldron has also disclosed that this atlas variant has some of the highest stats along the top 10 of the mechs every season. Slow assault mechs also take no skill to play, you can't really position because you're too slow too, and you just click at things that take up the width of your screen. In my opinion, these mechs should be weak because they don't really take skill and they are unfun to fight as they usually kill you instantly.

>"slow brawl assaults take no skill"
>posts video of a 99.5+% player


ok bro


You know what I'd love to see? A video from you compiling all the times you've lost to a slow assault brawler. That'd be fun.

Edited by foamyesque, 09 November 2024 - 04:58 PM.

[Coolwhoami]

This has always been a cycle since the beta days; hell, gauss weapons exist as they do now because of multiple nerfs to both make them make sense vs an AC/20 and to stop poptarting. The biggest trouble with brawling is always coordination; having an organized set of people makes it far more effective and with much more effective movement. In solo queues, higher range is often just a better bet when you can't effectively communicate or coordinate with other players.

[LordNothing]

fp had some great coordinated brawls. i miss those.

[1Exitar1]

I pretty much only play brawlers. I love fast mechs, preferably with SRMs. For me it's a lot of fun playing a tiny mech running around the legs of the bigger mechs or getting to the side or even behind the enemy and tearing theirs backs up. Sometimes I even get kills! LOL

I play brawlers because they are fun, a challenge and my eyes aren't good enough to snipe anymore, even with a new 32" OLED monitor!

[Ttly]

Yeah why brawl when you can have the Behemoth with 40 DPS (this is more than even the upcoming Bane's 30ish albeit not 800m range obviously) shooting at 400-500m ranges right?
You uhh can downgrade to light 325 if you don't like XL I guess, whatever.

Edited by Ttly, 15 November 2024 - 11:27 PM.

[Moadebe]

foamyesque, on 09 November 2024 - 04:49 PM, said:

>"slow brawl assaults take no skill"
>posts video of a 99.5+% player


ok bro


You know what I'd love to see? A video from you compiling all the times you've lost to a slow assault brawler. That'd be fun.

Nah...how about all the light mechs hes died to

and he only posted it cause hes in it.

A single video with two coordinated good players in two large high alpha/high survival mechs isn't an indication of the overall experience.

Its just stroking ego

Things have been shifting a bit overall in the meta, and a good brawl can happen. They are just still not as common as say point and click warrior with blue flashlights.

I mostly see the lights and mediums in the brawl lately. More of a wolf pack. Mostly cause its the main counter to any sniper play.

[Samara 6J]

I think the issues with brawling are mostly in how individual performance metrics favor damage trading efficiency and in how short range is just inherently less consistent, but imo there's some map selection problems piling on as well. There are few maps where it's actively detrimental to run a long ranged build (Mining Collective, Solaris City, to some extent Frozen City: Night). There are no maps where it's actively detrimental to run a midranged build. By contrast, short ranged mechs do poorly on:
1: Grim Plexus
2: Frozen City
3: Tourmaline Desert
4: Alpine Peaks
5: Canyon Network
6: Hibernal Rift

And it's not just that you're just mechanically suboptimal on these maps like an ERLL Stalker is suboptimal on Mining Collective. Playing on these maps as a brawler feels uninteractive and powerless IMO. You spend half the match walking while enemies you can't respond to pick at you, and even once you get to where you were going you're very limited in where and how your position. A lot of the time, especially if the enemy has a strong ranged presence, you can't do anything at all until your team has thinned them out enough to let you push across some of the open areas. Like every damn Grim Plexus match feels the same - you walk forward for three minutes and take some PPC shots, you get to the hill, and then both teams kind of stand there and trade damage across the big no-man's-land around the hill while the brawlers twiddle their thumbs until one team's down enough firepower to justify pushing over the top or around the sides. You just do nothing for most of the match.



I don't know if brawling would be much better performance wise if something were to be done about these maps, but I think they'd be more consistently fun to play.

[Moadebe]

Samara 6J, on 17 November 2024 - 12:34 AM, said:

I think the issues with brawling are mostly in how individual performance metrics favor damage trading efficiency and in how short range is just inherently less consistent, but imo there's some map selection problems piling on as well. There are few maps where it's actively detrimental to run a long ranged build (Mining Collective, Solaris City, to some extent Frozen City: Night). There are no maps where it's actively detrimental to run a midranged build. By contrast, short ranged mechs do poorly on:
1: Grim Plexus
2: Frozen City
3: Tourmaline Desert
4: Alpine Peaks
5: Canyon Network
6: Hibernal Rift

And it's not just that you're just mechanically suboptimal on these maps like an ERLL Stalker is suboptimal on Mining Collective. Playing on these maps as a brawler feels uninteractive and powerless IMO. You spend half the match walking while enemies you can't respond to pick at you, and even once you get to where you were going you're very limited in where and how your position. A lot of the time, especially if the enemy has a strong ranged presence, you can't do anything at all until your team has thinned them out enough to let you push across some of the open areas. Like every damn Grim Plexus match feels the same - you walk forward for three minutes and take some PPC shots, you get to the hill, and then both teams kind of stand there and trade damage across the big no-man's-land around the hill while the brawlers twiddle their thumbs until one team's down enough firepower to justify pushing over the top or around the sides. You just do nothing for most of the match.



I don't know if brawling would be much better performance wise if something were to be done about these maps, but I think they'd be more consistently fun to play.

Start messing with those and you will see the salt flow from some people. Heck I suggested a fix to that one spot on the edge of the map near the F line in mining collective that promotes a long range mech to sit there and nearly be invisible to the naked eye if they have ECM with a blacked out camo. (outside of config manipulation...) A few had a meltdown at even the thought of it.

Many of those maps need a shakeup on how they operate. Would freshen things up

[foamyesque]

Moadebe, on 17 November 2024 - 08:05 AM, said:

Start messing with those and you will see the salt flow from some people. Heck I suggested a fix to that one spot on the edge of the map near the F line in mining collective that promotes a long range mech to sit there and nearly be invisible to the naked eye if they have ECM with a blacked out camo. (outside of config manipulation...) A few had a meltdown at even the thought of it.

Many of those maps need a shakeup on how they operate. Would freshen things up

People on the walls on Collective will show up well in night vision, even if they're running stealth. Always worth doing a check of G4 & G5 if at all possible. If they're there, you can contest or at least tell your team to watch out, and if they're not, you can take it for yourself and crush the rotation.

Edited by foamyesque, 17 November 2024 - 09:39 AM.

[Moadebe]

foamyesque, on 17 November 2024 - 09:38 AM, said:

you can take it for yourself and crush the rotation.

usually the best option as of late