120 replies to this topic

[Vulpesveritas]

I vote for legshots. I also vote for realism. If you blow up the leg, the mech should fall over in that direction, take damage to the arm and torso it fell on, and have issues. Should still be able to function a bit, but should be tipped over on it's side like it would be because I just shot a gauss into your actuator.

I think given the want for this to be a simulator we all want it to be realistic in this fashion, right? Honestly it's no different than having an arm blown off or the like. Just a bit harder to fight back with. As it should be.

[TKDelta]

Being legged in MW2/3 was one of the biggest beefs I had with the game, and I think that MW4/Mercs handled the situation better (with the dragging leg mechanism). I'd love to be able to leg people, but I hope it doesn't result in them falling on their face, as it doesn't seem sporting...

[per4mer]

Mchawkeye, on 07 January 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Uh, what weapons require a lock? streakSRM is the only weapon I know of that cannot be fired without lock....possibly artillery and what not...but otherwise, the majority of weaponry does not require a lock...

I'm going off memory so I apologize if its a bit hazy, MW1 and MPBT:S hazy... I just re-read my thread and figured its only fair I respond to your post, I was going off memory and thought htat medium and long rand weapons needed a lock to fire accurately. What I didnt clarify was that my suggestion was to make certain weapons require a lock and allowing others to free fire. I suppose it was a flawed suggestion, but I thought it would be a decent way to balance legging. Does that clarify my post?

[Mchawkeye]

yes, that clarifies it, but would also cripple the game; it makes sense that some weapons, like guided missiles would need a lock to target; unguided weaponry, like gauss, carries no such reason for requiring a lock.

A big part of the simulation, from my point of view, is that elements are implemented for reasons of realism, not for arbitrary reasons of game balance. there are many, many other ways of preventing legging or mitigating the results.

The fact is that Mechs, most of them at least, have two legs and they, by their nature, make the mech vulnerable. the solution is not to arbitrarily prevent people from targeting them, just make it harder to gain the desired result....

[Semyon Drakon]

I am with the majority in this. If I am running my usual heavy (please please a Marauder) and someone jogs around the corner in frotn of me in a Raven and hits the gas i am going to do my level best to hobble the little monster. If that means PPC's to the legs then so be it.

Even if I get to follow my goals and end up playing as a Clan mechwarrior I would do the same. It's just the way it is.

Of course if I get back armour and am packing a Gauss rifle then.. why bother shooting legs?

Semyon

[Phades]

Omigir, on 03 January 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

I used to think MW3 was better then MW4, then I took an Arrow IV to the knee...

More like someone used a pulse as a targeting laser before weapon swapping and blowing your leg clean off.

[Terminator98]

Why do legs exist if not to be shot at... Oh wait, MW3?
LOOK AT MW:4 MY FRIENDS... WHERE LEGGING NETS YOU AN x2 HARDER KILL IF THE GUY PUTS PROPER ARMOR ON THERE!

Oops, caps.

Anyways, just follow the same concept as MW:4, and we should be more than fine.
That or make legs even tougher... (which I don't think you can)

Leg Shavers hating em getting nailed for their clean and shiny internal structure is sticking out?

THEN DON'T SHAVE YOUR LEGS AND LET ARMOR GROW ON IT LIKE A TRUE MAN!


Ahem....
Bai.

[Bernardo Sinibaldi]

I'm really failing to see why shooting legs shouldn't be a valid tactic....

Aiming centre-mass is a high percentage shot but that area tends to be better armoured. Shooting an individual component (legs) travelling in a quickly moving target, when that component is also moving back and forth, is a high risk / high return option. If the target isn't moving (more fool it) then you're only aiming at an individual component so that'll become a low risk / high return option.

If someone is wandering about with light leg armour - either because they removed it in mechlab (to min/max) or because they've already taken hits there - then I'd fully expect many people to target those legs. Personally, if I lose my leg (or CT) armour I'll be withdrawing from the fight.

[T0RC4ED]

Legs = Valid target
Its the Heavy Gause or AC-20 I would be more worried about.

Edited by T0RC4ED, 10 January 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[plodder]

T0RC4ED, on 10 January 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Legs = Valid target
Its the Heavy Gause or AC-20 I would be more worried about.

Valid yes, like mechw3&4 hopefully not.

[Petroff Northrup]

Balancing leg armor is tough, they are usually easy to hit, have lower armor, and you cannot shield them easily. Also, avoiding intentional legging has been around since MW2 since it was easy to one-shot legs with lasers and was a serious dick move all the way up to MWLL were one of he most prominent servers bans it.

[Vulpesveritas]

Petroff Northrup, on 10 January 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Balancing leg armor is tough, they are usually easy to hit, have lower armor, and you cannot shield them easily. Also, avoiding intentional legging has been around since MW2 since it was easy to one-shot legs with lasers and was a serious dick move all the way up to MWLL were one of he most prominent servers bans it.

Umm... how is balancing leg armor hard? Take it off the torso/arms if you want your legs better armored. Or reduce your armament. Or reduce the maximum speed of your mech.
It's called a tradeoff.

[Petroff Northrup]

Vulpesveritas, on 10 January 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Umm... how is balancing leg armor hard? Take it off the torso/arms if you want your legs better armored. Or reduce your armament. Or reduce the maximum speed of your mech.
It's called a tradeoff.

From the perspective of overall balance in the game, and there is still a limit to how much armor you can put there

[Elizander]

One way to address this issue is for gradual degradation of performance rather than a binary "walking or crippled" status. This way you can make the legs significantly tougher without making leg shots a waste of effort. Mech speed can be eventually slowed down to limping if you deal enough damage to the leg but it has more armor which allows it to withstand more punishment. Getting hits in will eventually slow down the mech even if the leg is not totally blown off so your shots will not be wasted either.

As a simple example, leg armor could be tuned up by 200% and every 100% lost reduces the mech's speed by 33%. It can even be more gradual by reducing speed every XX% of damage taken.

[Thorn Hallis]

As long as destroying a leg doesn't kill the whole mech I'm all up for it.

[Havoc2]

I'd say easiest way to prevent legging being the preferred method of getting a kill would be MW4 style.

Leg armor is reduced to 0, 'Mech limps around.

Maybe add in that if both legs are reduced to 0, 'Mech cannot move at all but can still torso twist and shoot.


You want to not get legged? Don't run around with no leg armor.

[Undead]

I can't believe how many threads we have crying about difffernt tactics. Omg! Jump-sniping! Omg! Boating! Omg! Legging! Seriously people, any part of a mech is a valid target. Yeah, it sucks having your leg blown off, but it's part of the game. Don't want your legs to get blown off? Don't strip all the armor off of them and/or don't expose them. Use the terrain and your mech's movement to make you a more diffcult target.

No one ever said piloting a mech is easy. Instead of whining about the tactics your opponents are using, improve and adapt your own so you can beat them. Seriously, it seems like some people want to turn this game into "MechGentlemen". Pretty soon we'll just all pilot mechs with hands and no weapons and march around giving each other fancy handshakes.

[Zervziel]

Quite frankly I'd like it if when a leg initially goes, it does the MW4 limp. After that you can start shaving off chunks of the leg. Have a foot taken off at the ankle? Congratulations, your shiny mech is now a glorified turret. Any movement then would cause tremendous weapon swing, making firing on the move useless. Lose the leg at the hip after hobbling, sit back and enjoy the nice ground texture. As Is, I want to still be able to fire from the ground. That way if the person that legged gets too cocky they may well end up with an autocannon 20 shell right up the arse.

[Vulpesveritas]

Petroff Northrup, on 11 January 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

From the perspective of overall balance in the game, and there is still a limit to how much armor you can put there

Yeah. Kinda the point. Just like there's a limit to how much armor you can put on your arms and torso. Or there's a limit to how heavy your mech can be. And there's a limit to how many weapons you can have on your mech.
you know, a balance thing.

[Petroff Northrup]

Vulpesveritas, on 11 January 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Yeah. Kinda the point. Just like there's a limit to how much armor you can put on your arms and torso. Or there's a limit to how heavy your mech can be. And there's a limit to how many weapons you can have on your mech.
you know, a balance thing.

taking out a side torso or arm will not leave your mech flat on it's back and unable to provide any real aid in battle, taking out a leg can do that far too easily, especially when dealing with close to canon armor levels.