50 replies to this topic

[BLACKR0SE]

Void Angel, on 29 October 2024 - 02:39 PM, said:

I've appeared like a horror movie jump scare in my Atlas quite a few times over the years. Some poor fool turns the corner and finds himself nose to nose with the apex knife-range Assault brawler... then starts desperately backpedaling. I don't play the Atlas as much any more, because the slow brawling builds I enjoy with that 'mech take a lot of work to employ properly in 12v12 - but I flatter myself that a proper hard engagement is quite startling to those on the other end.

In any case, I'm sorry you find anti-Light combat so stressful, but there are things you can do about it. I know you've heard it before, but positioning yourself within mutual support of your teammates is a key tactic; if you find they move faster than you can track them, use Anchor Turn and Twist Speed skill nodes. Many Assault builds can actually support those skills - your Stalker build in that screenshot you shared does not need any cooldown skill nodes, for example. It's simply so hot with the lasers that the extra heat isn't worth the extra firepower - you're often going to be heat-limited, like you are in that shot. Taking twist speed, anchor turn, and even twist range, to allow you to track circling Lights more quickly and keep them from getting good shots on your giant side profile might help you immensely.

When designing a machine, you consider many possibilities. It's all about luck. First, is the map you're going to encounter a large one or a small one? This is important because it determines whether you'll use close-range or long-range weapons. Remember, lights are not only effective at close range but also at long range, even on the Solaris map. You can find them up high. I've searched a lot, but unfortunately, there's no solution to this. Neither nodes, weapon types, armor types, nor aerodynamic structures can help. Many possibilities depend on luck. Even if you're very good, if your team is bad, there's nothing you can do. Without support, there's nothing you can do. I'd like to tell you about a match I played yesterday. On the ALPINE PEAKS map, I used LRM behind a hill to pin down the entire enemy team. If I had a friend with me instead of a light that came to my side, I wouldn't have died, and we would have won. But unfortunately, all the recent matches I've played are filled with people camping individually. There's nothing I can do about it. Watching team members camp individually from start to finish, getting picked off one by one, doesn't bring me any joy. On one side, there's a team that shreds anything in front of them like piranhas, and on the other side, a team that avoids fighting and sneaks away into corners. I understand that some people want to take down enemies from afar as snipers, but they could do it from the middle of the map instead of from their base. That way, they would be involved in the game. For example, on the MANIFOLD map, the person who climbs up the wall at their base and waits the entire match thinks of themselves. The sniper team aiming from the middle thinks of each other, shares their armor when needed, and can intervene suddenly. I've also come across well-coordinated teams; there were times when I got 6 kills in a match because everyone in the team was protecting each other and aware of each other's firepower. But usually, the lone players are lights. I attribute the weak firepower in a match to the lights. When you enter the game, you can choose a 20-ton machine or a 100-ton machine, but when you affect the distribution percentage, the result is bad. I assume you understand what I'm trying to say. I've been in matches where there were 2 Assault mechs and the rest were all lights. Everyone was injured but had no firepower to kill. As I said, it's all about luck. I just think it would be nice to have an equal distribution of classes in a game. If a player wants to play light, let them. But there should be a certain limit so that they can join the next game. I don't know how many games are being played simultaneously or how it would affect the waiting time, but I believe equal distribution of classes would provide more balanced firepower.

You mentioned nodes. I don't fully understand your language, so I learn many features through experience rather than explanations. I can do what you said, but this time I wouldn't be giving nodes to my armor, cooling, or air support, and my mechanic would be weak for large machines. I try the possibilities and your advice in one night anyway.

And of course, there's a daily changing meta in the game that you can never understand or predict. The weapon class distribution people use changes every day. Today lasers, tomorrow ballistics, the next day LRMs. Amidst all these probabilities, your share in the gameplay is very small, be assured.

Please excuse any minor translation errors, and remember that this entire text is a translation.

https://www.twitch.t...054?t=01h39m22s

series of absurd matches

Edited by BLACKR0SE, 08 November 2024 - 01:25 PM.

[PrjctSphynx]

still hating the new weight limits. it only hurts people who want to play as a lance. this is ********, pgi needs to unfuck this.

[martian]

PrjctSphynx, on 08 November 2024 - 06:53 PM, said:

still hating the new weight limits. it only hurts people who want to play as a lance. this is ********, pgi needs to unfuck this.

People, who want to play as a lance, can still play as a lance. They are just no longer able to drop as a underweight lance of 4 lights on one team and a overweight lance of 3 Assaults with 1 light 'Mech thrown in on the other team, thus massively unbalancing the gameplay.

This is what you complained about. Remember?

PrjctSphynx, on 23 October 2024 - 05:37 PM, said:

the weight limits make no sense because the match making system is notoriously bad at evening the teams. you regularly have 5 to 8 assaults on one team and a bunch of lights on the other.

PGI has just adjusted the tonnage limit to mitigate the problem that you personally complained about.

[Void Angel]

BLACKR0SE, on 07 November 2024 - 12:37 PM, said:

When designing a machine, you consider many possibilities. It's all about luck. First, is the map you're going to encounter a large one or a small one? This is important because it determines whether you'll use close-range or long-range weapons. Remember, lights are not only effective at close range but also at long range, even on the Solaris map. You can find them up high. I've searched a lot, but unfortunately, there's no solution to this. Neither nodes, weapon types, armor types, nor aerodynamic structures can help. Many possibilities depend on luck. Even if you're very good, if your team is bad, there's nothing you can do. Without support, there's nothing you can do. I'd like to tell you about a match I played yesterday. On the ALPINE PEAKS map, I used LRM behind a hill to pin down the entire enemy team. If I had a friend with me instead of a light that came to my side, I wouldn't have died, and we would have won. But unfortunately, all the recent matches I've played are filled with people camping individually. There's nothing I can do about it. Watching team members camp individually from start to finish, getting picked off one by one, doesn't bring me any joy. On one side, there's a team that shreds anything in front of them like piranhas, and on the other side, a team that avoids fighting and sneaks away into corners. I understand that some people want to take down enemies from afar as snipers, but they could do it from the middle of the map instead of from their base. That way, they would be involved in the game. For example, on the MANIFOLD map, the person who climbs up the wall at their base and waits the entire match thinks of themselves. The sniper team aiming from the middle thinks of each other, shares their armor when needed, and can intervene suddenly. I've also come across well-coordinated teams; there were times when I got 6 kills in a match because everyone in the team was protecting each other and aware of each other's firepower. But usually, the lone players are lights. I attribute the weak firepower in a match to the lights. When you enter the game, you can choose a 20-ton machine or a 100-ton machine, but when you affect the distribution percentage, the result is bad. I assume you understand what I'm trying to say. I've been in matches where there were 2 Assault mechs and the rest were all lights. Everyone was injured but had no firepower to kill. As I said, it's all about luck. I just think it would be nice to have an equal distribution of classes in a game. If a player wants to play light, let them. But there should be a certain limit so that they can join the next game. I don't know how many games are being played simultaneously or how it would affect the waiting time, but I believe equal distribution of classes would provide more balanced firepower. You mentioned nodes. I don't fully understand your language, so I learn many features through experience rather than explanations. I can do what you said, but this time I wouldn't be giving nodes to my armor, cooling, or air support, and my mechanic would be weak for large machines. I try the possibilities and your advice in one night anyway. And of course, there's a daily changing meta in the game that you can never understand or predict. The weapon class distribution people use changes every day. Today lasers, tomorrow ballistics, the next day LRMs. Amidst all these probabilities, your share in the gameplay is very small, be assured. Please excuse any minor translation errors, and remember that this entire text is a translation. https://www.twitch.t...054?t=01h39m22s series of absurd matches

Even if this wasn't an international forum, the simple principle of charity (you should always interpret someone favorably if you can) should let people look past minor errors - I'll never chide someone for speaking even partially (at least) one more language than I do.

As for designing your builds, there's always chance involved - but I wouldn't say it's all down to luck. From your description of how matches are playing out, I can understand how it feels that way, but most maps (Alpine Peaks being a notable exception) allow you to play all build types if you use the terrain well. Some builds (like a slow Atlas brawler) are harder than others to make work - brawlers notably require patience and careful timing to use well - but you really can use a variety of builds in your matches, and adapt to how other players are acting. Sometimes, you're right, the mix of enemy and friendly 'mechs and weapons will shift; that is up to chance - or the odd Youtube video from some content creator somewhere. =\ But there's still always some way to make it work; you always have agency - you control exactly 1/24th of how the match is going to play out. Design a build that does what it does well (avoid "multi-range" builds, pairing UAC/2s with ERLLs, etc) and then position yourself to support and be supported by your team.

As some examples of what this might look like, the best way to deal with Lights in your Assault is never to chase them. If you're being attacked, fight back as best you can, but move away from the Lights through your team if you can't get them. I got my Ace of Spades in a Spider, and I am here to tell you: the one thing a Light hates most is an Assault or Heavy that has nothing better to do than stare into the backfield waiting for the Light to expose itself to shoot - Lights just cannot trade shots with an Assault, and trying to do so is suicidal. They have to engage when the Assault isn't looking - so if you can't discourage them by fighting back, move away through your team and shave them off that way. Hotkey the "enemy spotted" emote, too, so your team knows they have Lights on the flank. Chances are, there are several smaller, faster 'mechs on your team who can chase that Light away, and he's not going to run through your team chasing you.

Another example of how to use a build involves snipers. A sniper's proper role isn't to spend his team's armor to buy damage for himself; it is to control lines of fire by punishing people for moving up that corridor. Thus, if a sniper isn't getting shots, he needs to move; but as long as he is getting good shots, he's contributing to the team. The inverse of this that classic Atlas Brawler; he shouldn't be trying to trade with long-range and mid-range builds, because he'll lose. But he should be maneuvering to meet enemy advances, discouraging and channeling the enemy team's actions by his existence (the naval concept for this is called "fleet in being.") Call it "combat presence." So, that sniper you mentioned, up on the wall in HPG Manifold, might be only thinking of himself, or he might be strongly supporting his team - it depends on whether he adapts to the battlefield and makes his presence known.

Chess concepts like pressure and support relate to MWO tactics surprisingly well. Don't expect your team to think like you do (this is a constant frustration for me,) but you can still use them to shield yourself from Lights - even as you protect them from other enemies.

(As for skills, a "node" is a skill point - basically every icon you select is a "node" for skills. For example, if I have three points of Radar Deprivation, I've also "taken three Radar Deprivation nodes." I used "nodes" instead of "points" because "node" implies the spatial relationship of where the points are on the skill tree; but that is a nuance which isn't very important - and is likely to be totally lost in translation. =] )

[BLACKR0SE]

Void Angel, on 09 November 2024 - 03:19 AM, said:

Even if this wasn't an international forum, the simple principle of charity (you should always interpret someone favorably if you can) should let people look past minor errors - I'll never chide someone for speaking even partially (at least) one more language than I do.

As for designing your builds, there's always chance involved - but I wouldn't say it's all down to luck. From your description of how matches are playing out, I can understand how it feels that way, but most maps (Alpine Peaks being a notable exception) allow you to play all build types if you use the terrain well. Some builds (like a slow Atlas brawler) are harder than others to make work - brawlers notably require patience and careful timing to use well - but you really can use a variety of builds in your matches, and adapt to how other players are acting. Sometimes, you're right, the mix of enemy and friendly 'mechs and weapons will shift; that is up to chance - or the odd Youtube video from some content creator somewhere. =\ But there's still always some way to make it work; you always have agency - you control exactly 1/24th of how the match is going to play out. Design a build that does what it does well (avoid "multi-range" builds, pairing UAC/2s with ERLLs, etc) and then position yourself to support and be supported by your team.

As some examples of what this might look like, the best way to deal with Lights in your Assault is never to chase them. If you're being attacked, fight back as best you can, but move away from the Lights through your team if you can't get them. I got my Ace of Spades in a Spider, and I am here to tell you: the one thing a Light hates most is an Assault or Heavy that has nothing better to do than stare into the backfield waiting for the Light to expose itself to shoot - Lights just cannot trade shots with an Assault, and trying to do so is suicidal. They have to engage when the Assault isn't looking - so if you can't discourage them by fighting back, move away through your team and shave them off that way. Hotkey the "enemy spotted" emote, too, so your team knows they have Lights on the flank. Chances are, there are several smaller, faster 'mechs on your team who can chase that Light away, and he's not going to run through your team chasing you.

Another example of how to use a build involves snipers. A sniper's proper role isn't to spend his team's armor to buy damage for himself; it is to control lines of fire by punishing people for moving up that corridor. Thus, if a sniper isn't getting shots, he needs to move; but as long as he is getting good shots, he's contributing to the team. The inverse of this that classic Atlas Brawler; he shouldn't be trying to trade with long-range and mid-range builds, because he'll lose. But he should be maneuvering to meet enemy advances, discouraging and channeling the enemy team's actions by his existence (the naval concept for this is called "fleet in being.") Call it "combat presence." So, that sniper you mentioned, up on the wall in HPG Manifold, might be only thinking of himself, or he might be strongly supporting his team - it depends on whether he adapts to the battlefield and makes his presence known.

Chess concepts like pressure and support relate to MWO tactics surprisingly well. Don't expect your team to think like you do (this is a constant frustration for me,) but you can still use them to shield yourself from Lights - even as you protect them from other enemies.

(As for skills, a "node" is a skill point - basically every icon you select is a "node" for skills. For example, if I have three points of Radar Deprivation, I've also "taken three Radar Deprivation nodes." I used "nodes" instead of "points" because "node" implies the spatial relationship of where the points are on the skill tree; but that is a nuance which isn't very important - and is likely to be totally lost in translation. =] )

You are talking about 1 light mech, but I am talking about teams where the majority are light mechs. There's nothing you can do when you are burned from 4 or 5 corners at the same time. I'm talking about teams that die completely in 5 minutes. I'm talking about trolls who climb onto a platform and watch their teammates die without doing anything. Maybe I've played 100 matches today. How many did I win? 5 or 6, a funny number. Sad but true. Sometimes I really think I'm playing with bots instead of humans, especially when I see 2 nicks using the same series of nicknames. When I see nicks related to something I did. When I see troll nicks.

https://www.twitch.t...029?t=05h35m18s

Edited by BLACKR0SE, 09 November 2024 - 11:15 AM.

[BLACKR0SE]

I really don't like going into a game with 20 other mice. I want to fight mechs, not mice.

I cannot fight an enemy I cannot see.

Edited by BLACKR0SE, 10 November 2024 - 02:45 PM.

[PrjctSphynx]

it would be nice if they would quit patching and nerfing, and just fix the damned servers...

[martian]

PrjctSphynx, on 10 November 2024 - 04:40 PM, said:

it would be nice if they would quit patching and nerfing, and just fix the damned servers...

How many server outages have we had since January 2024?

[Void Angel]

BLACKR0SE, on 09 November 2024 - 11:10 AM, said:

You are talking about 1 light mech, but I am talking about teams where the majority are light mechs. There's nothing you can do when you are burned from 4 or 5 corners at the same time. I'm talking about teams that die completely in 5 minutes. I'm talking about trolls who climb onto a platform and watch their teammates die without doing anything. Maybe I've played 100 matches today. How many did I win? 5 or 6, a funny number. Sad but true. Sometimes I really think I'm playing with bots instead of humans, especially when I see 2 nicks using the same series of nicknames. When I see nicks related to something I did. When I see troll nicks.

https://www.twitch.t...029?t=05h35m18s

That's not how Light wolfpacks should work. I'm sorry I can't look at your twitch stream - my bandwidth is pretty limited right now. But remember: I earned my Ace of Spades on a Spider. So I'm very familiar with both sides of this fight, and I have bad news for you...

You need to start playing Lights.

At least find some fast Mediums to play! I'm not saying they should be your favorite weight classes, or that they're better 'mechs. But nothing will help you learn to kill Lights in your Assault 'mechs faster than playing Lights yourself. I can't evaluate trolls and idiots in your matches, but I can tell you that I don't see those behaviors in Tier 1 - not at all. So I think what you're dealing with is exposure to the famous "Steering Wheel Underhive" of lower-end Tier 5s, a few of whom may actually be alt accounts made up deliberately to mess with you. Or maybe it's just coincidence; who knows? The best response is to raise your Tier so that you don't have to care - and with the amount of trouble you're having against Lights, only piloting them yourself will do that for you.

martian, on 10 November 2024 - 09:32 PM, said:

How many server outages have we had since January 2024?

Don't feed him. He just wants to derail the thread so that his OP seems more popular than it is. It's called a Red Herring.

[PrjctSphynx]

martian, on 10 November 2024 - 09:32 PM, said:

How many server outages have we had since January 2024?

a bunch.

but the problem i am referring to is the load times to enter the match lobby, or the number of disconnects during the game. if it was just once in a while, i would blame individual users, but it is at the point where half of a whole team wont load until after the match has started.

Void Angel, on 10 November 2024 - 09:45 PM, said:

That's not how Light wolfpacks should work. I'm sorry I can't look at your twitch stream - my bandwidth is pretty limited right now. But remember: I earned my Ace of Spades on a Spider. So I'm very familiar with both sides of this fight, and I have bad news for you...

You need to start playing Lights.

At least find some fast Mediums to play! I'm not saying they should be your favorite weight classes, or that they're better 'mechs. But nothing will help you learn to kill Lights in your Assault 'mechs faster than playing Lights yourself. I can't evaluate trolls and idiots in your matches, but I can tell you that I don't see those behaviors in Tier 1 - not at all. So I think what you're dealing with is exposure to the famous "Steering Wheel Underhive" of lower-end Tier 5s, a few of whom may actually be alt accounts made up deliberately to mess with you. Or maybe it's just coincidence; who knows? The best response is to raise your Tier so that you don't have to care - and with the amount of trouble you're having against Lights, only piloting them yourself will do that for you.



Don't feed him. He just wants to derail the thread so that his OP seems more popular than it is. It's called a Red Herring.

so ii walk away from the post for a week and 3 pages of text appear in that time, and i am the one keeping the thread alive?? ok buddy...

[Aethos]

this game sucks to play now. I don't care what void says.

Edited by Aethos, 16 November 2024 - 07:49 PM.