14 replies to this topic

[Warblast]

I run quite a few ATM builds, which means active probe is a necessity for situations when an ECM light gets to point blank range. But lately I've noticed on several occasions that a single stealth mech getting to close range will cause low signal, preventing me from getting any lock-ons, despite running clan light active probe.

I thought maybe the LAP had been critted out or multiple enemy ECMs could've been nearby, but a couple matches later, it happened right at the beginning of the match with just a single stealth locust getting to close range and completely ignoring the LAP, which should have prevented the low signal.

I've tested the range boosts, which work (clan active probe gives better range bonuses than light active probe, despite what the mechlab says). It also does speed up target info time and I have also personally had my ECM nullified by (presumably) enemy active probes. But lately, when I run into the above situation, I've consistently been hit with low signal. Does anyone have experience with this or any idea what's going on?

[Grospoliner]

Sadly ECM bubbles disable lock on, so AP only functions at range to decrease lock time.

[Ken Harkin]

TAG is your friend. Since ATMs are almost entirely direct LOS weapons with only minimal arc TAG is a definite go to not just to counter the ECM but to gain the lock quickly.

One BAP is supposed to counter one ECM bubble I believe.

Now STEALTH armor is another thing entirely. TAG is a DEFINITE requirement as is some sort of close in weapon. BAP does nothing with stealth. My Howl has 4 ATM9, 2MG, 1TAG. Worst case you can dumbfire the ATMs and the MGs are a big help for annoying light stealth mechs. It is because of stealth that I never take Streak SRMs any more. I would take them if they could dumb fire but there is no point with every match having a couple Streak invulnerable stealth mechs.

Edited by Ken Harkin, 27 December 2024 - 08:02 AM.

[Arcadinal]

Grospoliner, on 27 December 2024 - 07:04 AM, said:

Sadly ECM bubbles disable lock on, so AP only functions at range to decrease lock time.

I also thought BAP was supposed to counter one ECM bubble, but you're saying in the case of a BAP vs. one ECM bubble, you will still get low signal jammed?

[Warblast]

Ken Harkin, on 27 December 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

TAG is your friend. -SNIP-

Yes, I'm also running TAG. The issue is not targeting stealth mechs, but the fact that their stealth "bubble" is causing low signal on my mech, despite having active probe equipped.

Arcadinal, on 27 December 2024 - 08:01 AM, said:

I also thought BAP was supposed to counter one ECM bubble, but you're saying in the case of a BAP vs. one ECM bubble, you will still get low signal jammed?

That was my assumption as well, confirmed by the section under ECM Strategy Notes via the below link.

https://mwo.nav-alph...rmation-warfare

[Grospoliner]

Arcadinal, on 27 December 2024 - 08:01 AM, said:

I also thought BAP was supposed to counter one ECM bubble, but you're saying in the case of a BAP vs. one ECM bubble, you will still get low signal jammed?

That is correct. This is why I would reccomend any lock on mech build that carries AP, TAG, and a Light PPC in order to have some sort of defense and counter to ECM and Low Signal.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Only ways to counter Stealth are.

TAG laser, Narc, any PPC hit, or if the Stealth Mech manually switches it off.

Stealth lowers a mech's heat dissipation, and cuts sensor range.

As annoying as Stealth may be to you, it comes with a huge cost to the mech that runs it.

[Arcadinal]

Cyborne Elemental, on 28 December 2024 - 08:58 AM, said:

Only ways to counter Stealth are.

TAG laser, Narc, any PPC hit, or if the Stealth Mech manually switches it off.

Stealth lowers a mech's heat dissipation, and cuts sensor range.

As annoying as Stealth may be to you, it comes with a huge cost to the mech that runs it.

Ok, than why does the MWO material specifically say that BAP counters the nearest ECM in range? Is that just flat out misleading?

[Warblast]

Arcadinal, on 28 December 2024 - 09:00 AM, said:

Ok, than why does the MWO material specifically say that BAP counters the nearest ECM in range? Is that just flat out misleading?

It is supposed to counter the ECM itself, just not the stealth effect. You can see this when you are running stealth armor and walk near someone with active probe or counter ECM. Your ECM is countered, but you're still not targetable.

My main question, I guess, is can anyone confirm with 100% certainty that all active probes will counter the low signal effect of an enemy mech at close range, even if the enemy has stealth armor active?

[Arcadinal]

Warblast, on 28 December 2024 - 11:16 AM, said:

It is supposed to counter the ECM itself, just not the stealth effect. You can see this when you are running stealth armor and walk near someone with active probe or counter ECM. Your ECM is countered, but you're still not targetable.

My main question, I guess, is can anyone confirm with 100% certainty that all active probes will counter the low signal effect of an enemy mech at close range, even if the enemy has stealth armor active?

I want to know this too.

[Navid A1]

Warblast, on 27 December 2024 - 06:55 AM, said:

I run quite a few ATM builds, which means active probe is a necessity for situations when an ECM light gets to point blank range. But lately I've noticed on several occasions that a single stealth mech getting to close range will cause low signal, preventing me from getting any lock-ons, despite running clan light active probe.

I thought maybe the LAP had been critted out or multiple enemy ECMs could've been nearby, but a couple matches later, it happened right at the beginning of the match with just a single stealth locust getting to close range and completely ignoring the LAP, which should have prevented the low signal.

I've tested the range boosts, which work (clan active probe gives better range bonuses than light active probe, despite what the mechlab says). It also does speed up target info time and I have also personally had my ECM nullified by (presumably) enemy active probes. But lately, when I run into the above situation, I've consistently been hit with low signal. Does anyone have experience with this or any idea what's going on?

What you are observing is the effect of stealth armor active, not ECM (in a direct way). Active stealth armor is immune to the the counter-ECM effects and as a result can constantly jam a target with no passive counter. Stealth armor can only be disabled when it is hit with a PPC type weapon (some lock-on focused mechs often carry a light PPC or Plasma PPC for this purpose)

A TAG helps you paint a stealth target at a distance when it is not actively jamming you. It does not disable the stealth armor like PPCs do, but allows you to target them and lock on them. IF they are not close to you and jamming you.

Grospoliner, on 27 December 2024 - 07:04 AM, said:

Sadly ECM bubbles disable lock on, so AP only functions at range to decrease lock time.

This is false.
I know it is a common notion in the community (I believed so too until recently). But tests has shown that indirect lock-on times only take into account the base sensor range of a mech (800m) and are not affected by anything that extends this range. No skill nodes, no quirks, no Active probes, nothing.
indirect lock on time starts with 1 second when near point blank to around 2.6 seconds at 800 meters and beyond.


All the said, having an active probe is still essential for a lock on mech, since it allows you to counter one ECM mech, which unlike stealth mechs, are very common each match.

Edited by Navid A1, 28 December 2024 - 02:07 PM.

[TELEFORCE]

For 'mechs where I really depend on the missiles, I load an active probe and some flavor of PPC. One PPC hit can get me at least two Streak SRM salvos in on a pesky stealth light 'mech, causing plenty of hurt.

[LordNothing]

any ppc is the best equipment for getting locks.

[Saved By The Bell]

If stealth so close to you, you cant do damage, so TAG doesn't help.

You must position yourself right and bring other weapons.

[LordNothing]

you can do damage. i dumbfire lerms/thunderbolts/atms all the time. id dumbfire streaks if the game let me. effective damage, no, none at all. but i have had a few clutches and close calls as a result of unloading my rack like an mrm.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 January 2025 - 02:18 AM.