34 replies to this topic

[Dark Fenrir the Fluffy]

I have noticed the following which is a negative force with player retention in my opinion:

1) Tier 3...enough said if you've experienced it with its mix of high and low tier players with the current general community. (see 2)

2) High Tier players,for the most part that I have seen, tend to sacrifice lower tier players to cherry pick with fast lighter meta mech's or range farmers. Then having heard that they say, "get better" or "play a faster mech" or "position better". All these things are very true, to someone who has the experience to see the wisdom in it or know how to implement that advice. Simply put lower tier and beginner players quit before they have a chance to learn. In the real military the new guys are supported by the seasoned veterans until they are up to speed and at least have a chance of survival. This game rewards solo play more than team play in its current state other than the games won/lost stat on the leader boards. (Even this can reward team drops in the solo cue more than the solo player)

3) Paying to play makes money off of new players who try to skip learning the game because of the above two points which is good for profit (keeps the game alive) but again sets new players up for disappointment. (We all know that brand new Ultraviolet cant help a bad player)

So my question to you MWO veterans and high tier players is: How do we correct these things (ideas welcome) to the point where we grow the player base, reward the veterans who look out for the new guys, and improve on the fun for ALL players.

Ideas like the following:
-Once we have more people playing we could have a 10 tier system for example so your less likely to have tier 1 guys fighting tier 5 guys.
-Small unit tactics in the boot camp that show formations, lines of fire, proper flanking vs map jogging ect ect.
-A tier 5 that only lets truly new players fight truly new players or even an AI lance with corrective tips during the fight. Maybe a volunteer veteran who commands a new lance to train them up properly and teach them to have fun but more importantly, at least have the skills to survive a bit.

Yes there are training videos online that MAY be found by the frustrated new players, if they look, but how many do we lose before they even try. (this is why a more instructive intuitive, and fun boot camp would help)

Constructive thoughts?

Oh yes, and please please please, game modes that reward people playing the mode, I.E. domination, points earn for staying in the zone, points slowly removed for sitting way outside the circle farming while your team dies brawling.

Edited by Dark Fenrir the Fluffy, 16 January 2025 - 12:01 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Going up a Tier imo isn't a positive, and just makes the MM depend on your performance harder to balance teams.

Really if there is a mix of Tier 4 through Tier 1 on both sides, might as well just disable the MM weighing and make totally random teams.

[Dark Fenrir the Fluffy]

Going up a Tier is a positive if your experienced as your team sticks together and knows how to support each other. Ive been in matches where I was definitely one of maybe two tier 3 players the rest 1s or 2s and we swept through the enemy team so fast it was hard to even find targets. High tier should play high tier. Benefit for low tier is clear: player retention and fun. Benefit for high tier: less games watching a lance of your assaults fight from a hole in the ground and team damaging each other trying to shoot the flea. What makes the game fun for experienced players should be the challenge not easy destructo wins and kills to gain free stuff and stat prestige. Let upper tier guys earn stuff through REAL competition and through encouraging and uplifting new players.

[LordNothing]

you dont get the same kind of accountability as you would on the actual battlefield. you can use people as cannon fodder and not get reprimanded, but then again you can also avoid combat without being shot for cowardice. there are no orders, no chain of command, nothing, just a bunch of crabs fighting for the privilege of being higher up in the bucket. it is unrealistic to expect any coordination from random players. expecting military discipline is just delusional. the coordinated player is so rare we couldn't even keep fp and group queue alive on their own, without an event or all out integration with qp, respectively.

it is not the job of high tiered players to take the skittles under their wing. half those players can't tell a troll drop caller from an experienced one. ive seen people blindly follow idiots, and others blatantly disrespect a known good drop caller for no other reason than ignorance and perhaps an inflated ego. you will always get players doing stupid things, bringing stupid builds, making stupid mistakes repeatedly, and try to get them to play smarter always results in "but mah playstyle". its a game, people come here to have fun.

the crisis of new player retention has been a thing since this game started, yet its still here. some crisis. the game has always been in decline, and new players are always going to be at a gross disadvantage to players who have been here for 10 years, and this is always getting worse with time. more tiers isnt the answer, as the ones we do have get little separation. there is only so much you can do with 14k players (and only 800! new players). except for diminishingly rare peak hours, chances of the mm doing its job at all are slim. training has been an afterthought over the last 10 or so years, and dev time is virtually non-existant. there are units looking to train and plenty of 3rd party training content out there for those that wish to improve. but for most they just want to play a game. you might get better games with smaller drops, but the community is mostly hellbent against that.

the game is starting to age out. old players are getting bored, and new players dont want to play bad legacy code that hasnt kept up with tech very well over the last 10 years. the game looks ancient and it plays hard. its not a spring chicken anymore.

[Dark Fenrir the Fluffy]

LordNothing, on 16 January 2025 - 12:09 PM, said:

you dont get the same kind of accountability as you would on the actual battlefield. you can use people as cannon fodder and not get reprimanded, but then again you can also avoid combat without being shot for cowardice. there are no orders, no chain of command, nothing, just a bunch of crabs fighting for the privilege of being higher up in the bucket. it is unrealistic to expect any coordination from random players. expecting military discipline is just delusional. the coordinated player is so rare we couldn't even keep fp and group queue alive on their own, without an event or all out integration with qp, respectively.

it is not the job of high tiered players to take the skittles under their wing. half those players can't tell a troll drop caller from an experienced one. ive seen people blindly follow idiots, and others blatantly disrespect a known good drop caller for no other reason than ignorance and perhaps an inflated ego. you will always get players doing stupid things, bringing stupid builds, making stupid mistakes repeatedly, and try to get them to play smarter always results in "but mah playstyle". its a game, people come here to have fun.

the crisis of new player retention has been a thing since this game started, yet its still here. some crisis. the game has always been in decline, and new players are always going to be at a gross disadvantage to players who have been here for 10 years, and this is always getting worse with time. more tiers isnt the answer, as the ones we do have get little separation. there is only so much you can do with 14k players (and only 800! new players). except for diminishingly rare peak hours, chances of the mm doing its job at all are slim. training has been an afterthought over the last 10 or so years, and dev time is virtually non-existant. there are units looking to train and plenty of 3rd party training content out there for those that wish to improve. but for most they just want to play a game. you might get better games with smaller drops, but the community is mostly hellbent against that.

the game is starting to age out. old players are getting bored, and new players don't want to play bad legacy code that hasn't kept up with tech very well over the last 10 years. the game looks ancient and it plays hard. its not a spring chicken anymore.

Good points and everything you said is EXACTLY the single minded thinking that kills player base. You didn't even bother to clearly read what I said. None of your response was constructive at all, just argumentative and confrontational making points off of things I never said.

If your going to join a conversation for constructive reasons great, we can disagree all day. You bring Zero ideas just bitching,..go away.

[PurplePuke]

Dude, we've all heard all of your points before. Many times. Most of what you say has been beaten to death.

The game is on its last legs. There's not going to be a new influx of players who stick around and raise the number of players so there can be 10 tiers.

None of it's going to happen. Enjoy the game the way it is, try to be helpful if you like, but don't put too much mental effort into how to grow the game by retaining new players.

It's not going to happen.

[Dark Fenrir the Fluffy]

LordNothing, on 16 January 2025 - 12:09 PM, said:

you dont get the same kind of accountability as you would on the actual battlefield. you can use people as cannon fodder and not get reprimanded, but then again you can also avoid combat without being shot for cowardice. there are no orders, no chain of command, nothing, just a bunch of crabs fighting for the privilege of being higher up in the bucket. it is unrealistic to expect any coordination from random players. expecting military discipline is just delusional. the coordinated player is so rare we couldn't even keep fp and group queue alive on their own, without an event or all out integration with qp, respectively.

it is not the job of high tiered players to take the skittles under their wing. half those players can't tell a troll drop caller from an experienced one. ive seen people blindly follow idiots, and others blatantly disrespect a known good drop caller for no other reason than ignorance and perhaps an inflated ego. you will always get players doing stupid things, bringing stupid builds, making stupid mistakes repeatedly, and try to get them to play smarter always results in "but mah playstyle". its a game, people come here to have fun.

the crisis of new player retention has been a thing since this game started, yet its still here. some crisis. the game has always been in decline, and new players are always going to be at a gross disadvantage to players who have been here for 10 years, and this is always getting worse with time. more tiers isnt the answer, as the ones we do have get little separation. there is only so much you can do with 14k players (and only 800! new players). except for diminishingly rare peak hours, chances of the mm doing its job at all are slim. training has been an afterthought over the last 10 or so years, and dev time is virtually non-existant. there are units looking to train and plenty of 3rd party training content out there for those that wish to improve. but for most they just want to play a game. you might get better games with smaller drops, but the community is mostly hellbent against that.

the game is starting to age out. old players are getting bored, and new players dont want to play bad legacy code that hasnt kept up with tech very well over the last 10 years. the game looks ancient and it plays hard. its not a spring chicken anymore.

1)did I say we needed the same accountability on the battlefield?
did I sat we needed military discipline hence making me disillusion?
2)is it "unrealistic" to think tank on improving coordination through rewards during game play?
did I say it was anyone's "job" to take new players under their wing?
3)Is this line how you bring constructive ideas into this discussion;
"you will always get players doing stupid things, bringing stupid builds, making stupid mistakes repeatedly, and try to get them to play smarter always results in "but mah playstyle". its a game, people come here to have fun."
SO anyone not at your skill level is "stupid"?
4) What factual basis do you have to say the game has always been in decline and what does that have to do with finding solutions as this post is trying to discuss?
5) The game "ageing out" is exactly why I started this conversation. So with 17000 plus posts and over 10 years of experience,...this response is the best the community can get from you? Negative, assumptive, confrontational, insulting, and just gloomy. Dude,..maybe since you monitor the forums and answer stuff so quick you should use your experience for more than bitching and maybe try to think of ways to correct the issues and keep it alive vs "its doomed blah blah declined from the beginning blah blah" Jesus go outside and get some fresh air and use your intellect instead of your bad attitude.

[Dark Fenrir the Fluffy]

PurplePuke, on 16 January 2025 - 12:30 PM, said:

Dude, we've all heard all of your points before. Many times. Most of what you say has been beaten to death.

The game is on its last legs. There's not going to be a new influx of players who stick around and raise the number of players so there can be 10 tiers.

None of it's going to happen. Enjoy the game the way it is, try to be helpful if you like, but don't put too much mental effort into how to grow the game by retaining new players.

It's not going to happen.

Dude,..your the second person to not bring ideas. Is it illegal to think of new things even if they might not or even likely will not happen? Are you guys the thought and idea police here to burn ideas before they sprout. Why so negative? PGI just had to fire a bunch of folks so that could mean the beginning of the end and that could mean they start to listen to the player base more. Either way, why come on here and post negative responses to a think tank discussion. I didnt post this with the title 'ANYBODY WHO THINKS THE GAME IS DYING GIVE A SHOUT OUT" did I?
Nor did I say you have to agree with the concept of making things better. Why would you join the conversation if you dont believe in its premise? One word,..bitching. Sorry you feel that way but there are plenty of other posts that invite bitching by their titles like "MWO SUCKS" that you can go chant "yeah it does" on to your hearts content.

you said "we've all heard" in reference to my ideas. So YOU represent the community? Maybe some player group of thousands? In your wisdom you chop in here to let me know that you speak for the community? Maybe before anyone positive shows up with ideas and puts "too much mental effort". It is clear that you also don't believe in any future for this game nor do you bring anything but your assumed speaker-ship of all and mental effort policing powers. So what exactly did you expect in a response? "Oh wow dude, sorry I didnt know the whole community agreed on this and that I use way too much mental effort,...sorry Ill remove my post."?
Once more,....CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS,..not bitchy verbal farts, or doomsday nay says.

Edited by Dark Fenrir the Fluffy, 16 January 2025 - 12:54 PM.

[kalashnikity]

Dark Fenrir the Fluffy, on 16 January 2025 - 11:15 AM, said:

I have noticed the following which is a negative force with player retention in my opinion:

1) Tier 3...enough said if you've experienced it with its mix of high and low tier players with the current general community. (see 2)

2) High Tier players,for the most part that I have seen, tend to sacrifice lower tier players to cherry pick with fast lighter meta mech's or range farmers. Then having heard that they say, "get better" or "play a faster mech" or "position better". All these things are very true, to someone who has the experience to see the wisdom in it or know how to implement that advice. Simply put lower tier and beginner players quit before they have a chance to learn. In the real military the new guys are supported by the seasoned veterans until they are up to speed and at least have a chance of survival. This game rewards solo play more than team play in its current state other than the games won/lost stat on the leader boards. (Even this can reward team drops in the solo cue more than the solo player)

3) Paying to play makes money off of new players who try to skip learning the game because of the above two points which is good for profit (keeps the game alive) but again sets new players up for disappointment. (We all know that brand new Ultraviolet cant help a bad player)

So my question to you MWO veterans and high tier players is: How do we correct these things (ideas welcome) to the point where we grow the player base, reward the veterans who look out for the new guys, and improve on the fun for ALL players.

Ideas like the following:
-Once we have more people playing we could have a 10 tier system for example so your less likely to have tier 1 guys fighting tier 5 guys.
-Small unit tactics in the boot camp that show formations, lines of fire, proper flanking vs map jogging ect ect.
-A tier 5 that only lets truly new players fight truly new players or even an AI lance with corrective tips during the fight. Maybe a volunteer veteran who commands a new lance to train them up properly and teach them to have fun but more importantly, at least have the skills to survive a bit.

Yes there are training videos online that MAY be found by the frustrated new players, if they look, but how many do we lose before they even try. (this is why a more instructive intuitive, and fun boot camp would help)

Constructive thoughts?

Oh yes, and please please please, game modes that reward people playing the mode, I.E. domination, points earn for staying in the zone, points slowly removed for sitting way outside the circle farming while your team dies brawling.

You need a version of this which is in game, for training, so you can work through the tactics while in a mech, not just read about them and have to try and apply it latter.

https://mwomercs.com...ics-101-comics/
Eventually this stuff comes easily, but it can take years.

[LordNothing]

Dark Fenrir the Fluffy, on 16 January 2025 - 12:36 PM, said:

1)did I say we needed the same accountability on the battlefield?
did I sat we needed military discipline hence making me disillusion?
2)is it "unrealistic" to think tank on improving coordination through rewards during game play?
did I say it was anyone's "job" to take new players under their wing?
3)Is this line how you bring constructive ideas into this discussion;
"you will always get players doing stupid things, bringing stupid builds, making stupid mistakes repeatedly, and try to get them to play smarter always results in "but mah playstyle". its a game, people come here to have fun."
SO anyone not at your skill level is "stupid"?
4) What factual basis do you have to say the game has always been in decline and what does that have to do with finding solutions as this post is trying to discuss?
5) The game "ageing out" is exactly why I started this conversation. So with 17000 plus posts and over 10 years of experience,...this response is the best the community can get from you? Negative, assumptive, confrontational, insulting, and just gloomy. Dude,..maybe since you monitor the forums and answer stuff so quick you should use your experience for more than bitching and maybe try to think of ways to correct the issues and keep it alive vs "its doomed blah blah declined from the beginning blah blah" Jesus go outside and get some fresh air and use your intellect instead of your bad attitude.

1 you implied. you tried to compare apples to oranges by comparing military service to a game. i merely was explaining why things are the way they are.

2 has never worked. however pgi imagined the game would go, players had their own plans. thus the tutorial content we got does not even remotely match the gameplay we actually get. free loot in fp led to a lot of angry customers. casuals flooded the queues for free mech bays and mc, and got slaughtered by those seeking coordination. one only has to look at the present state of the mode to tell which population was bigger.

3 people play for different reasons. skill is irrelevant. you got t1 edgecampers who will throw the whole team under the bus for kdr, and you got apathetic players who think they can do no work and still bubble up. again this is what we have. i could be (and have been) t2, perhaps t1 if i only played meta, but i like to play a lot of mechs, even bad ones with terrible stats (i keep spreadsheets).

4 jarls global stats. jarls is not only for stat shaming low skill players. it also keeps population stats. with some math you can make estimation for things like how many people are in queue at any given time.

5 it is the fate of all live service games to fail the second that money in < operating costs. id like to at some point see a handover of the back end of the community, then we can discuss long term prospects of the game. but that is wishfull thinking. its more likely they will take it down to sell its successor product, if there is one (pgi layoffs make me doubt this).

you are the one who needs to touch grass here. i have only stated the reality as i see it. you can say nothing constructive until you actually know whats going on, because you have no frame of reference in which to know if your idea is good or just sounds good at the time. pgi has effectively been letting the game rot for years. to a new player coming in the game looks like an outdated buggy mess. it looked like a buggy mess to me 10 years ago. and pgi keeps it afloat with a string of minimally viable content. any positive steps forward are always too little and too late. its been a good run, far better than the developers deserved. so its no wonder we got only 800 new players in december, in spite of all the free stuff we got from the lootbag events and free mechs being handed out.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 January 2025 - 02:27 PM.

[PurplePuke]

Dark Fenrir the Fluffy, on 16 January 2025 - 12:45 PM, said:

Dude,..your the second person to not bring ideas. Is it illegal to think of new things even if they might not or even likely will not happen? Are you guys the thought and idea police here to burn ideas before they sprout. Why so negative? PGI just had to fire a bunch of folks so that could mean the beginning of the end and that could mean they start to listen to the player base more. Either way, why come on here and post negative responses to a think tank discussion. I didnt post this with the title 'ANYBODY WHO THINKS THE GAME IS DYING GIVE A SHOUT OUT" did I?
Nor did I say you have to agree with the concept of making things better. Why would you join the conversation if you dont believe in its premise? One word,..bitching. Sorry you feel that way but there are plenty of other posts that invite bitching by their titles like "MWO SUCKS" that you can go chant "yeah it does" on to your hearts content.

you said "we've all heard" in reference to my ideas. So YOU represent the community? Maybe some player group of thousands? In your wisdom you chop in here to let me know that you speak for the community? Maybe before anyone positive shows up with ideas and puts "too much mental effort". It is clear that you also don't believe in any future for this game nor do you bring anything but your assumed speaker-ship of all and mental effort policing powers. So what exactly did you expect in a response? "Oh wow dude, sorry I didnt know the whole community agreed on this and that I use way too much mental effort,...sorry Ill remove my post."?
Once more,....CONSTRUCTIVE IDEAS,..not bitchy verbal farts, or doomsday nay says.

Way to like your own post, dude.

I've not been elected to speak for anyone else, and neither have you. But my points stand: This has all been beaten to death before and that's just the way it is. There's not going to be changes that result in lots of new players and 10 tiers.

I'm not bringing new ideas because it's a waste of thought energy. Just enjoy MWO the way it is. It's not being developed anymore. Case closed.

If you don't like hearing posts that don't agree with you, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe the internet isn't for you.

Take a breather. Go outside and get some fresh air.

[sycocys]

There's nothing that can be done to create a new influx of players at this point except maybe making everything from 2024 and earlier free. That might get a temporary amount of return and new players.

Something that could be done to maybe improve the experience is reduce the drop count and group limit for quick play.

One of the worst things I'd suspect for new players especially is having 1 mech stuck and/or 1+ mechs that have high drop percentage and having to wait out an extra 3-5 minutes before you wait 3 minutes for the next match.

If you play a bunch and spend the few minutes to watch what better players are doing then you should hopefully be picking up little things to at least get better on the field and a few things about which loadouts seem to be outpacing yours. That's always been the base nature of the game.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

sycocys, on 16 January 2025 - 06:29 PM, said:

There's nothing that can be done to create a new influx of players at this point

Only way to get new players is make a new Mechwarrior Multiplayer game on a game engine that isn't a nightmare to work with. Add in player content support features like a Map Making tool, and even with the same exact Mechlab rules, weapons, and mech roster the game would see a massive resurgence.

Its absolutely mind-boggling PGI over the last decade just outright refused to let their fan base make new maps and modes for them, for FREE.

Anyway, I digress -- no need to go down that rabbit hole again. Nothing the game can do or change aside a new game entirely at this point.

[pbiggz]

This is your semi-regular PSR/Matchmaker reminder.

1) PSR exists for one reason and one reason only: to match you against players of a similar skill. Yes, it sometimes struggles because this game has a fairly low population and pretty broad buckets to match, but it still more or less does that job.

2) PSR is not a reward: Despite its presentation (gold t1 badge, green arrow when you do good in a match, red arrow when you do bad) PSR is not meant to be a reward. Its not an abstraction of your skill, its an abstraction of your skill relative to other players.

3) because of the above two points, PSR should not have ever been made visible to end users. This thread is one of many that points out a perceived distortion in the game, and links it back to tier ranking. It might even be true, but you might not have ever even noticed if PSR was invisible. There's no reason for it to be visible, as again, it is not a reward. It being presented as one is a mistake.

4) up or down, you should be happy with whatever arrow you get, because that means the matchmaker is adjusting you, to improve the quality of your next match. If you get consecutive down arrows, that could mean you're tired and you're reacting slowly, or you're new and dont know what to do, or it could just mean a lot of people who play at a higher level than you are logged in right now, and you keep getting matched against them. In either sense, you should want the arrow to go down, because it will put you in matches where you can succeed, rather than be farmed. The only reason this isn't patently obvious to people is because you can see PSR, and its presented like a reward, when it isn't.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

pbiggz, on 17 January 2025 - 11:19 AM, said:

Truth

Honestly it why the game kinda needed something like battle passes or some sort of "prestige" system like CoD. It needed some sort of literal progress bar to make people get the warm and fuzzies like they were getting better or something.

[pbiggz]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 17 January 2025 - 11:58 AM, said:

Honestly it why the game kinda needed something like battle passes or some sort of "prestige" system like CoD. It needed some sort of literal progress bar to make people get the warm and fuzzies like they were getting better or something.

In days of yore that was mechbays and mechs and your progression was primarily obtaining, configuring, and then mastering those mechs. I remember when it took a while to get new mechs. I grinded for a whole weekend to buy my first Atlas DDC. Money stopped being an obstacle more or less a decade ago. In lieu of that, things like badges, titles, cosmetics for your mechs. Those could and should be the rewards for an ongoing progression system. I don't like the FOMO effect that some battle passes produce; it plays with psychology in unhealthy ways, but you are absolutely right that there's essentially no progression in MWO, especially for players who have been in the game since the old days and are sitting on 100-200 mech stables.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

pbiggz, on 17 January 2025 - 12:08 PM, said:

I don't like the FOMO effect that some battle passes produce

I kinda wish they didn't timebox battle passes as I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging players to play the game for little rewards, if they miss out on a season, they shouldn't miss out on the goodies if they make up for it by playing 2 seasons worth of games the next one. Just limit someone to one battle pass being active at any given time or do the helldivers 2 thing because I agree for the same reasons. FOMO needs to go on somewhere.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 17 January 2025 - 05:32 PM.

[crazytimes]

The biggest obstacles to individual success is taking absolutely potato builds and playing poorly. Builds don't need to be super meta to be effective- but there's some broad good ideas, and there's a whole lot of potato. Universally, people who whinge about everything tend to pilot potato. With LAMS.

Very few other online games have absolutely no barrier to bringing trash. You can drop a zero armour one flamer assault without even a warning, let alone and obstacle to joining a match. So people do.

Then... It doesn't matter what you bring if you insist on playing it like trash. Lots of nods refuse to accept individual responsibility for their own outcomes, regardless of any argument or evidence to the contrary. If you play badly consistently- that is your fault, not "sweaty comp tossic groups".

[LordNothing]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 17 January 2025 - 11:58 AM, said:

Honestly it why the game kinda needed something like battle passes or some sort of "prestige" system like CoD. It needed some sort of literal progress bar to make people get the warm and fuzzies like they were getting better or something.

the progress bar is how slow your mechlab is because you have too many damn mechs.

[LordNothing]

pbiggz, on 17 January 2025 - 12:08 PM, said:

In days of yore that was mechbays and mechs and your progression was primarily obtaining, configuring, and then mastering those mechs. I remember when it took a while to get new mechs. I grinded for a whole weekend to buy my first Atlas DDC. Money stopped being an obstacle more or less a decade ago. In lieu of that, things like badges, titles, cosmetics for your mechs. Those could and should be the rewards for an ongoing progression system. I don't like the FOMO effect that some battle passes produce; it plays with psychology in unhealthy ways, but you are absolutely right that there's essentially no progression in MWO, especially for players who have been in the game since the old days and are sitting on 100-200 mech stables.

i thought the legends battlepass was better than the limited offer new mech events and early adopters goodies. in that no matter when you buy the mech you still get the goodies. this may not be how they are done in other games, but to be fair i dont play those games.