40 replies to this topic

[Equuleus]

Mechanics

You are talking about how the game works.

I am talking about how I work with it.

I have no control over the mechanics you speak of, I only have control of my input mechanics.

This is a sci -fi simulation in a digital world. So what you speak of as mechanics is not always going to be, as an analog reality in digital simulation pretending to emulate analog, It will always be short of real, so to speak?

It is only a form of trying to make something appear like a reality or rather it is a facade language that pretends it is the creator of physics but does not know all the language yet or how to show all of it via this language and never will, as it is not analog.

You may try to make it, fake it better, via more descriptive language but you will never write it into analog reality.

so, to me, a lot of that is,

It is, what it is?

[VixNix]

Equuleus, on 19 March 2025 - 10:27 AM, said:

Mechanics

You are talking about how the game works.

I am talking about how I work with it.

I have no control over the mechanics you speak of, I only have control of my input mechanics.

This is a sci -fi simulation in a digital world. So what you speak of as mechanics is not always going to be, as an analog reality in digital simulation pretending to emulate analog, It will always be short of real, so to speak?

It is only a form of trying to make something appear like a reality or rather it is a facade language that pretends it is the creator of physics but does not know all the language yet or how to show all of it via this language and never will, as it is not analog.

You may try to make it, fake it better, via more descriptive language but you will never write it into analog reality.

so, to me, a lot of that is,

It is, what it is?

Okay... good for you, meanwhile I believe the mechanics are messed up, jiggling hit boxes so that something that is "actually" hitting the mech misses it is bad mechanics.

The skirmish game mode should go away as most players play every game mode as skirmish.

[Equuleus]

There is a new digital code for analog chaos to make it seem more like how you want it?

You speak of a laser burn, yet that is exactly what it is doing, burning. Somewhat instantly but not instantly, as in burning and not all the way burned.

Therefore, if the laser is not on the exact same spot, it loses burn time there and burns less.

That is actually more real to analog physical?

and

I was only making a point about my input mechanics, as that is what I thought you were attacking and is the reason I choose to play this, as those mechanics are what I consider more real than other FPS games and if you want to try and make it android friendly and play like that I would never touch it again.

Are there flaky things that happen in this game? sure, I will agree with that.

[VixNix]

Equuleus, on 19 March 2025 - 12:10 PM, said:

There is a new digital code for analog chaos to make it seem more like how you want it?

You speak of a laser burn, yet that is exactly what it is doing, burning. Somewhat instantly but not instantly, as in burning and not all the way burned.

Therefore, if the laser is not on the exact same spot, it loses burn time there and burns less.

That is actually more real to analog physical?

and

I was only making a point about my input mechanics, as that is what I thought you were attacking and is the reason I choose to play this, as those mechanics are what I consider more real than other FPS games and if you want to try and make it android friendly and play like that I would never touch it again.

Are there flaky things that happen in this game? sure, I will agree with that.

Understood and accepted. Thank you for your input and explanations.

I don't think I was attacking anything, stating an opinion being considered an attack is part of the communication issue with young(er) people these days. If you don't agree with them they think you are attacking them.

[KursedVixen]

You know this is the wrong forum for this topic.

[Dasha Wayne]

I think removing Skirmish is a really bad idea, sometimes people just want to shoot mechs, and not chase the last survivor around (Assault) or stand around waiting for a flashing circle to finish while you gain nothing out of it other than "my team gets more points"
Welcome to conquest, where everything is made up, people get mad over nothing and the points don't matter.

[VixNix]

Dasha Wayne, on 21 March 2025 - 09:26 AM, said:

I think removing Skirmish is a really bad idea, sometimes people just want to shoot mechs, and not chase the last survivor around (Assault) or stand around waiting for a flashing circle to finish while you gain nothing out of it other than "my team gets more points"
Welcome to conquest, where everything is made up, people get mad over nothing and the points don't matter.

Maybe part of this is due to the rewards system being damage and kills = more than completing objectives?

Please share more of your thoughts on this.

[Equuleus]

I am old school from the days when skirmish meant team kills on a timed game with respawn. (HERCS) There was no other scoring system whatsoever, except maybe capture the flag game mode. So, this is already a giant leap forward in that respect but that is like 25 years ago, so it is like a giant slow leap.

But, skirmish is still skirmish and it has two objectives, kill everything or the time limit.

Those who join a game and vote skirmish are voting for a clocked objective and those who complain about waiting for the clock are complaining about the objective?

Yet this is supposed to be a battle sim?

and not a sports arena, where the ref calls the game over because the other team forfeits?

The way the scoring is now, is pretty good? IMO, Just tweak things that are actually team important, like lance formation and scouting stuff as well as other stuff that is team oriented and give it a boost so you are incentivized to do such things by thinking about it in advance rather than accidently doing it?

The clock is annoying, perhaps, but it is the actual objective? A running enemy combatant would run, in a battle sim until you catch him?

If you want to call the game via a forfeit, then that should also be an objective.

Could that be done via a lack of firing activity for an extended time or you could set a surrender condition for the enemy to vote rather than run or do kamikazi and suicidal war crimes?

I think skirmish is fine, perhaps it just needs some alternative end conditions?

Edited by Equuleus, 22 March 2025 - 10:36 AM.

[Dasha Wayne]

VixNix, on 22 March 2025 - 04:16 AM, said:

Maybe part of this is due to the rewards system being damage and kills = more than completing objectives?

Please share more of your thoughts on this.

are kills and such not weighted different depending on the mode?

[VixNix]

Equuleus, on 22 March 2025 - 10:24 AM, said:

I am old school from the days when skirmish meant team kills on a timed game with respawn. (HERCS) There was no other scoring system whatsoever, except maybe capture the flag game mode. So, this is already a giant leap forward in that respect but that is like 25 years ago, so it is like a giant slow leap.

But, skirmish is still skirmish and it has two objectives, kill everything or the time limit.

Those who join a game and vote skirmish are voting for a clocked objective and those who complain about waiting for the clock are complaining about the objective?

Yet this is supposed to be a battle sim?

and not a sports arena, where the ref calls the game over because the other team forfeits?

The way the scoring is now, is pretty good? IMO, Just tweak things that are actually team important, like lance formation and scouting stuff as well as other stuff that is team oriented and give it a boost so you are incentivized to do such things by thinking about it in advance rather than accidently doing it?

The clock is annoying, perhaps, but it is the actual objective? A running enemy combatant would run, in a battle sim until you catch him?

If you want to call the game via a forfeit, then that should also be an objective.

Could that be done via a lack of firing activity for an extended time or you could set a surrender condition for the enemy to vote rather than run or do kamikazi and suicidal war crimes?

I think skirmish is fine, perhaps it just needs some alternative end conditions?

I really don't know, maybe having some way of ending a skirmish other than kill all 12 would make it better, what ideas do you have?

Main reason I say do away with that mode is because all other games modes are MOSTLY played as skirmish given how the reward system is set up, playing objectives is secondary to damage and kills.

Dasha Wayne, on 22 March 2025 - 11:07 AM, said:

are kills and such not weighted different depending on the mode?

No Idea if they are or are not, do you know if that information has been shared and if so where?

[Equuleus]

If you don't like skirmish mode, then make the end condition shorter.

The clock then forces the action and the game ends under a timed condition of most kills and then becomes a condition to deal with while all the players are alive.

In other word it's speed chess, you don't get all day to make your moves.

Don't know if it is possible to tie the clock to kills? So when your team gets a kill, it takes time off the clock?

Edited by Equuleus, 23 March 2025 - 08:15 AM.

[VixNix]

Equuleus, on 23 March 2025 - 08:10 AM, said:

If you don't like skirmish mode, then make the end condition shorter.

The clock then forces the action and the game ends under a timed condition of most kills and then becomes a condition to deal with while all the players are alive.

In other word it's speed chess, you don't get all day to make your moves.

Don't know if it is possible to tie the clock to kills? So when your team gets a kill, it takes time off the clock?

I like that idea, would or could make sniper assaults less useful than actual assaulting assaults...

Also maybe the timer should start at 10 minutes for skirmish instead of 15.

[Dasha Wayne]

VixNix, on 22 March 2025 - 04:16 AM, said:

Maybe part of this is due to the rewards system being damage and kills = more than completing objectives?

Please share more of your thoughts on this.

I read through the topic and saw a good idea repairs/reload slowly I think the repairs should be fast enough to notice but not so fast that you become invincible while standing inside a captured location, As for reducing the timer in Skirmish on kills, wouldn't that incentivise people to hide away or turn away from fighting and hide if their team is losing?

[Equuleus]

"As for reducing the timer in Skirmish on kills, wouldn't that incentivise people to hide away or turn away from fighting and hide if their team is losing?"

Not if you would sort of do it like this,

if you are losing and get a kill you put time back on the clock, if you are winning and get a kill you take more time off the clock, and if you are tied no time is adjusted for the kill, but not so much that it dictates the whole game but as a function of the clock of the game?

Since the idea came from respawn type games with a clock there is really no modification of it other than the length of the clock?

But, that was just a suggestion out of the blue. My point was more about, where did the game mode come from, and it was just a simplistic idea of how to make a team game mode for a shooter. So, the point of skirmish from birth is a clocked idea as the objective?

[Dasha Wayne]

I still think any modification of the timer would push people to abandon fighting and run away and hide or commit suicide. But that is just my opinion.

On another note I was thinking about the programming of the game and how similar all the modes are, and what if skirmish were the base for all other modes, would removing it cause problems with other modes that use the same or similar code to Skirmish?

Edited by Dasha Wayne, 23 March 2025 - 06:30 PM.

[VixNix]

Dasha Wayne, on 23 March 2025 - 06:30 PM, said:

I still think any modification of the timer would push people to abandon fighting and run away and hide or commit suicide. But that is just my opinion.

On another note I was thinking about the programming of the game and how similar all the modes are, and what if skirmish were the base for all other modes, would removing it cause problems with other modes that use the same or similar code to Skirmish?

Reducing time on a skirmish could do that, yet it already happens and is a greater amount of time...

The PGI team recently removed Conquest game type from rotation for a whole patch cycle, no reason that Skirmish can't be removed...

[Dasha Wayne]

VixNix, on 24 March 2025 - 04:00 AM, said:

Reducing time on a skirmish could do that, yet it already happens and is a greater amount of time...

The PGI team recently removed Conquest game type from rotation for a whole patch cycle, no reason that Skirmish can't be removed...

Yeah well I don't think we want to incentivize that behavior more.

[Equuleus]

"I still think any modification of the timer would push people to abandon fighting and run away and hide or commit suicide. But that is just my opinion."


So, they don't want to play mech warrior?


"run away and hide or commit suicide"


???

and what strategy is that?

You are saying a clock makes them runaway and commit suicide?

frankly, IMO, that is not a valid rebuttal.

Again, what is the reason for this topic? When a team gets rolled on a big map, there is one fast runner that takes off and hides and there is still a bunch of time on the clock and even if the small guy does hit and run he will never get a win in that time as it does not have enough weapons to play that hit and run forever.

That is why this method is correct or a method like it

"if you are losing and get a kill you put time back on the clock, if you are winning and get a kill you take more time off the clock, and if you are tied no time is adjusted for the kill, but not so much that it dictates the whole game but as a function of the clock of the game?"

As it is now, if a team gets rolled, there is a bunch of time left on the clock, which is the issue of this runaway guy and hide guy.

With the method I just described to you, no time actually comes off the clock, if it is a close match and the teams are trading kills back and forth.

So if it is a close match and only a few players are left, then the clock does matter to the small hit and run guy as he has a chance to kill a few guys instead of 8 or whatever the game is and with the method I just described no time was actually removed.

It turns the clock time down according to how bad the other team is getting rolled and just takes the time off the clock that is the nuisance according to a logical ending.

If I kill, takes twenty seconds off the clock for example and you reverse it, no time has come off the clock? and if the game is close no time has come off the clock?

[VixNix]

Dasha Wayne, on 24 March 2025 - 06:47 AM, said:

Yeah well I don't think we want to incentivize that behavior more.

I don't know as it would do that.

What it would do is cut down on the time others have to wait to get to the next game queue.

In any case, I am still voting for removal of skirmish all together.

Other options/opinions are welcome and I would love to hear what people have for ideas.

[simon1812]

rather, wouldnt be better to make it so the other game modes dont feel like skirmish at all?