35 replies to this topic

[Moadebe]

Howdy yall.

Coming to you to let you know there is a poll going on right now over at the Cauldron Feedback discord about MASC.




You can find the Cauldron Feedback Discord here -----> https://discord.gg/nvycBY7ngG

IF anything join it and submit your vote. If you wish to discuss this topic or join its discussion please do so on the discord (really talking here would be brainstorming...the discussion would probably best be served there.)

REMEMBER....KEEP IT CIVIL!!!

(Again...the main reason I am posting this is to help bridge the gap between the Discord and Forums and help keep those of you who prefer not to join a discord a chance to know what is going on with MWO.)

Take care yall!

Edited by Moadebe, 22 February 2025 - 06:23 PM.

[sycocys]

That's something that should have been QA'd and corrected by PGI before implementing it into the game. If it's implementation is degrading hit reg, then it should just be removed.

[LordNothing]

if anything i wish we had more masc. and is there any way to leave the gauge up so i know the build has masc? find myself running a lot of masc builds and then forgetting its installed.

Edited by LordNothing, 23 February 2025 - 04:02 PM.

[Bud Crue]

While I don't care if they do or don't nerf MASC beyond the possible issue that it exacerbates hit reg issues, if they do nerf it, I would hope they wait a couple months so that the folks who just bought a pretty MASC reliant mech for real $ don't feet like once again PGI is nerfing as soon as folks spend real $ on something.

[Hawk819]

I totally agree that there's a need to nerf some of the MASC, but some of the others need a buff. Not the Moth. That one could use a bit of a nerf. Assaults would be a good start like the Executioner, for starters, but it depends on what kind of nerf/buff is warranted. In short, I'm all for it. Good luck.

[1453 R]

For those curious, the poll is currently trending very strongly towards "Leave M.A.S.C. alone". And also entered the server in the midst of a discussion about how the bottom 90% of players in Jarl's can simply shut the [Fig Newton] up and let the real players make the decisions.

Great place, the Feedback Discord. Real glad I hitched up.

[Samziel]

1453 R, on 23 February 2025 - 06:58 PM, said:

For those curious, the poll is currently trending very strongly towards "Leave M.A.S.C. alone". And also entered the server in the midst of a discussion about how the bottom 90% of players in Jarl's can simply shut the [Fig Newton] up and let the real players make the decisions.

Great place, the Feedback Discord. Real glad I hitched up.

Bit exaggerating there. Remember that place is filled with every kind of players. From nice people to {Richard Cameron}. Just like the forums. That discussion didnt have any Cauldron members or devs claiming what you say. On the contrary, Bluedevil just explained why balance is usually done top down and reminded people to be civil.

I voted for specific nerfs myself. Most mechs with MASC are the best in their chassis, although not all MASC mechs are top tier, like the fridge Ice Ferret. Although in that case its not the MASC but the mech itself that is bad.

Edit

Okay, it seems the forums replace the word of male genitals to {Richard Cameron}. I didnt know that, amazing.

Edited by Samziel, 24 February 2025 - 12:37 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 23 February 2025 - 06:58 PM, said:

For those curious, the poll is currently trending very strongly towards "Leave M.A.S.C. alone". And also entered the server in the midst of a discussion about how the bottom 90% of players in Jarl's can simply shut the [Fig Newton] up and let the real players make the decisions.

Samziel, on 24 February 2025 - 12:31 AM, said:

From nice people to {Richard Cameron}. Just like the forums. That discussion didnt have any Cauldron members or devs claiming what you say. On the contrary, Bluedevil just explained why balance is usually done top down and reminded people to be civil.

Like Samziel said, it ranges on the kinds of interactions you'll see. From those like Blue who typically try to keep things civil, to Bassault level of salty/black and white view. FWIW my first interaction was also.....not great either because it can be clique-y at times. At the same time, there are some wild takes that come through so that's part of the reason it's like that. Not great but understandable in some way.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

Was it not already nerf'd, like a few months back or so? Don't nerf it again, it reduced the survivabilityof the mechs that use them effectively. Further reducing masc would reduce that even further, and then what's the point of masc?

[1453 R]

As I understand it from what extremely limited conversation I saw in said Discord (as the overall mood seemed to be "we discussed this yesterday, there's nothing more to say, shut up and go away"), the idea seems to be that at high levels of play, stutter-stepping and/or feathering M.A.S.C. has replaced feathering jump jets as the means du jour of artificially warping one's hitboxes and spreading damage in a weird way that's difficult to compensate for. The accel/decel profile of 'Mechs like the Flea also still causes hitreg issues, as just because they've pushed CryEngine and their hitreg solutions to their limits doesn't mean they're stable at those limits.

M.A.S.C. ultralights redline hitreg, and M.A.S.C. everything else offers survivability boosts no other equipment does purely because of the system's accel/decel. Ultracomps don't even really care about the speed or turning boosts, it's almost purely the accel/decel boost and that boost's ability to throw off their hitboxes that's the issue at stake. the only reason the speed boost is even a thing is because feathering M.A.S.C. to rapidly vary the 'Mech's top speed and engage in accel/decel shenaniganry that way allows the same hitbox jankery. The Cauldron wants to address this but is expressing some degree of reluctance/caution in the matter.

Which is strange, because I specifically asked if they were keeping in mind the cost to M.A.S.C.-dependent 'Mechs like the Flea if the system was nerfed, and was quite sternly told A.) to mind my own business, and B.) that no, it was not a consideration at all. If that's the attitude, I have to wonder why they're expressing any reluctance to hammer M.A.S.C. the way they're looking at.

Edited by 1453 R, 24 February 2025 - 10:24 AM.

[Moadebe]

1453 R, on 24 February 2025 - 10:23 AM, said:

(as the overall mood seemed to be "we discussed this yesterday, there's nothing more to say, shut up and go away"),

THIS is the biggest problem there. So just a heads up if anyone goes in there. Its one of the reasons I try to bridge that gap between there and here. I stopped even trying to think outside the box and look for different ways to make interesting changes outside of hitting the normal "levers" of say cooldown, velocity, heat, damage and the like because of things like this attitude.

Neither place (discord or forums) is perfect in the slightest. Each has its issues and strengths. Forums are good for talking about one topic and staying on that topic across multiple posts. The discord is probably best to just talk about whatever is being discussed at that time.

If people were more civil through all mediums it would be great overall, but humans will human. *shrug*

Anyways. Back to the MASC talk. Personally. Some need to be tweaked. Some don't so Im more in the middle bracket in all this.

[Valdarion Silarius]

It should be on a mech by mech basis. If there's a global nerf on MASC then mechs like the Executioner will further fall behind and will have to be compensated with other buffs to not become obsolete. If the MASC nerfs target only light and medium mechs then I could see it being a positive change.

Edited by Valdarion Silarius, 24 February 2025 - 01:28 PM.

[1453 R]

Moadebe, on 24 February 2025 - 10:47 AM, said:

THIS is the biggest problem there. So just a heads up if anyone goes in there. Its one of the reasons I try to bridge that gap between there and here. I stopped even trying to think outside the box and look for different ways to make interesting changes outside of hitting the normal "levers" of say cooldown, velocity, heat, damage and the like because of things like this attitude.

Neither place (discord or forums) is perfect in the slightest. Each has its issues and strengths. Forums are good for talking about one topic and staying on that topic across multiple posts. The discord is probably best to just talk about whatever is being discussed at that time.

If people were more civil through all mediums it would be great overall, but humans will human. *shrug*

Anyways. Back to the MASC talk. Personally. Some need to be tweaked. Some don't so Im more in the middle bracket in all this.

I...don't know if you're censuring me or agreeing with me?

Either way. I did what you suggested, joined the Discord, cast my vote and tried to discuss. Was more-or-less ignored/shut out. Which, hey - nature of the Internet, everybody wants to talk and nobody wants to hear. Just bites when some of my favorite 'Mechs are M.A.S.C.-equipped critters like the Hellfire and they're all about to eat a round of nerfs right to the teeth after already losing one of the main things I valued M.A.S.C. for. I love when M.A.S.C. lets me make a machine like Heckwarmer that excels at pursuit and outriding, easily running down and outmaneuvering 'Mechs that thought they could escape and hammering them senseless with fire heavier than they expect from anything as fast as this machine, but when they chopped a bunch of the top speed off of M.A.S.C. to address Fleas and other light 'Mechs it really hurt designs like this.

It's petty, sure. But I just wish that marginal designs like this one didn't have to get punched in the short ribs whenever the Cauldron makes admittedly necessary adjustments to all the stuff the Ultracomps use.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Thanks for making people aware, Moadebe.

Ultimately, the poll is a gauge on what people are thinking when it comes to MASC. It's not the actual changes themselves. We have at least 4 internal options and likely another 1 or 2 may pop up. Actual changes would be nuanced and explained in the new manner that Tiyos did in the previous patch notes.

The MASC changes do not involve the Fire Moth fwiw.... it has its own special MASC and since we're fixing the rear armor/survival bug more gameplay testing needs to be done before it's adjusted.

[Moadebe]

1453 R, on 24 February 2025 - 11:01 AM, said:

I...don't know if you're censuring me or agreeing with me?

Either way. I did what you suggested, joined the Discord, cast my vote and tried to discuss. Was more-or-less ignored/shut out. Which, hey - nature of the Internet, everybody wants to talk and nobody wants to hear. Just bites when some of my favorite 'Mechs are M.A.S.C.-equipped critters like the Hellfire and they're all about to eat a round of nerfs right to the teeth after already losing one of the main things I valued M.A.S.C. for. I love when M.A.S.C. lets me make a machine like Heckwarmer that excels at pursuit and outriding, easily running down and outmaneuvering 'Mechs that thought they could escape and hammering them senseless with fire heavier than they expect from anything as fast as this machine, but when they chopped a bunch of the top speed off of M.A.S.C. to address Fleas and other light 'Mechs it really hurt designs like this.

It's petty, sure. But I just wish that marginal designs like this one didn't have to get punched in the short ribs whenever the Cauldron makes admittedly necessary adjustments to all the stuff the Ultracomps use.

Agreeing man. Sorry

[1453 R]

Don't worry, not an issue. Mostly wanted to clarify, heh.

[Moadebe]

BlueDevilspawn, on 24 February 2025 - 11:24 AM, said:

Thanks for making people aware, Moadebe.

No problem man. Just trying to help the game at large that we all have a passion for.

[1453 R]

Man. What an incredibly fascinating and eye-opening day-odd it has been in the Cauldron Feedback Discord.

For anyone else thinking of throwing their hat in the ring and providing Feedback in the Cauldron Feedback Discord: don't. As generally an advocate for the Cauldron overall and someone who does in fact believe they do have the best interests of MWO at heart, I say this to you: they don't want to talk to you, they don't want to hear from you, and they are absolutely and utterly uninterested in "Feedback."

Thanks for letting me know, Moadebe. And thanks for helping me prioritize my game spending for the future. No "NOT ONE PENNY MORE" nonsense, but this little peek behind the curtain has been absolutely illuminating.

[Moadebe]

1453 R, on 24 February 2025 - 03:16 PM, said:

Man. What an incredibly fascinating and eye-opening day-odd it has been in the Cauldron Feedback Discord.

For anyone else thinking of throwing their hat in the ring and providing Feedback in the Cauldron Feedback Discord: don't. As generally an advocate for the Cauldron overall and someone who does in fact believe they do have the best interests of MWO at heart, I say this to you: they don't want to talk to you, they don't want to hear from you, and they are absolutely and utterly uninterested in "Feedback."

Thanks for letting me know, Moadebe. And thanks for helping me prioritize my game spending for the future. No "NOT ONE PENNY MORE" nonsense, but this little peek behind the curtain has been absolutely illuminating.

Its why I try to just gather the info and bring it here for more eyes among the community for transparency and keeping people informed. All while saying I understand if someone doesn't wanna join a discord.

[Ttly]

I'd rather the non-MASC variants gets buffed to close the gap rather than it getting nerfed, not to mention some MASC variants needing buffs if anything rather than nerfs.