45 replies to this topic

[Armored Yokai]

Give them some good old fashioned super quirks
-Jump Height of a Cicada 3F
-Armor levels of a Medium mech
-65-80% Cooldown on their weapons
-Limit the max speed to be 120kph

If PGI has the ability to make only 1 more mech then let these be the last 2!
They share the same body to an extent and only need different heads.

[Gasboy]

Stinger, Wasp and Valkyrie. We'd have the whole Veritech family with the Phoenix Hawk and Crusader.

[1453 R]

Friggin'...not THIS crap again...

[GreyNovember]

Yknow how the Firemoth only has like 4 tons of guns?

Same deal, except now you're slower in exchange for jump capacity, in an IS XL light.

You can shuffle the weapons around and downgrade the engine a little, but you're going to be starved for slots soon.

Firemoth promises stupid levels of speed to both engage and disengage at will, where the only thing that can really track it are other dedicated fast movers, in addition to ECM, independent of quirkage on a chassis where all your guns are above your cockpit.

Unless these are specifically character defining quirks, like how the Urbie was given 360 rotation and far, far more durability than you'd think, I'm hesitant to just slap more gun enchancements on the mech. The Huginn STILL hasn't been forgiven for it's rapid fire SRM sins.

Something absolutely absurd that another chassis doesn't have, like initial JJ thrust modifiers to catapult it up onto HPG's ledges, or get above and behind someone QUICKLY, and not slowly hover and scrape against them, would at least be a point to consider.

[Gasboy]

GreyNovember, on 29 March 2025 - 09:29 PM, said:

Yknow how the Firemoth only has like 4 tons of guns?

Same deal, except now you're slower in exchange for jump capacity, in an IS XL light.

You can shuffle the weapons around and downgrade the engine a little, but you're going to be starved for slots soon.

Firemoth promises stupid levels of speed to both engage and disengage at will, where the only thing that can really track it are other dedicated fast movers, in addition to ECM, independent of quirkage on a chassis where all your guns are above your cockpit.

Unless these are specifically character defining quirks, like how the Urbie was given 360 rotation and far, far more durability than you'd think, I'm hesitant to just slap more gun enchancements on the mech. The Huginn STILL hasn't been forgiven for it's rapid fire SRM sins.

Something absolutely absurd that another chassis doesn't have, like initial JJ thrust modifiers to catapult it up onto HPG's ledges, or get above and behind someone QUICKLY, and not slowly hover and scrape against them, would at least be a point to consider.

They made the Hatchetman, the Mad Dog Sigma and two mechs with shields. They're not the most optimal of mechs. Stinger, Wasp and Valkyrie are along similar lines.

[Armored Yokai]

GreyNovember, on 29 March 2025 - 09:29 PM, said:

Something absolutely absurd that another chassis doesn't have, like initial JJ thrust modifiers to catapult it up onto HPG's ledges, or get above and behind someone QUICKLY, and not slowly hover and scrape against them, would at least be a point to consider.

Superquirks!!!
Combine the Locust, Urbanmech, and the Spider5V or Cicada 3F and you get the envisioned wasp or stinger with the ability to mount a binary laser

[kalashnikity]

Stinger has very few differences between variants, but...

Wasp has significant variability in armaments, you can easily get 4 or 5 variants, plus a hero (we've hashed this out before).

a 20 ton mech with jump jets is about the last thing missing from this game.

No need for ridiculous quirks, but something unique would be nice, I like that idea for crazy high initial boost on jump jets (maybe save that for the hero?).

An armor buff in line with the urban mech percentages would be reasonable, make it tankier than the firemoth, since it will be slower, and have the IS issues with heavier missile weapons. The missile variant should get big cooldown buffs, in line with the locust 1M.

Energy varients could get a small cooldown and heat buff, and the variant with MGs can get a 100% rate and ammo buff, to make it viable. Maybe give it an AP Guass cooldown buff too.

And there is an ECM variant.

All the bases are covered.

[GreyNovember]

Gasboy, on 29 March 2025 - 09:46 PM, said:

They made the Hatchetman, the Mad Dog Sigma and two mechs with shields. They're not the most optimal of mechs. Stinger, Wasp and Valkyrie are along similar lines.

The Onyx was at least neato, and I appreciated the tradeoff of big shield changing how someone has to engage with it. It's why I grabbed it.

I'd have picked up more, but the Heavy-Assault classes are always packed, and I'd like to get into matches sooner.

Hatchet TBH just feels like "Medium Mech # 453" because the hatchet is entirely aesthetic, with the full head ejection system not modeled in a way that reflects gameplay.

Stinger and it's ilk need something similar to it's base characteristics to perk interest.

Just hyperquirking it feels like I'm both paying for an objective advantage that it doesn't have to pay for in game, which feels dirty, and prone to having the rug pulled from under me.

[1453 R]

I will never understand why people keep demanding these things when they KNOW these 'Mechs will fail miserably in MWO. The most disturbingly dedicated PokeMech 'Mech Dads will buy them but never play them, and nobody else will buy them OR play them. The WHOLE, ENTIRE POINT of these two 'Mechs in the source material is "pointless list filler for when you don't have enough points left to do anything else more useful." Why would anyone voluntarily choose to be pointless list filler in MWO?

Edited by 1453 R, 30 March 2025 - 05:04 AM.

[GreyNovember]

1453 R, on 30 March 2025 - 05:03 AM, said:

PokeMech 'Mech Dads will buy

It's that, full stop.

There are so very many unpainted minis lying around.

[martian]

1453 R, on 30 March 2025 - 05:03 AM, said:

I will never understand why people keep demanding these things when they KNOW these 'Mechs will fail miserably in MWO. The most disturbingly dedicated PokeMech 'Mech Dads will buy them but never play them, and nobody else will buy them OR play them. The WHOLE, ENTIRE POINT of these two 'Mechs in the source material is "pointless list filler for when you don't have enough points left to do anything else more useful." Why would anyone voluntarily choose to be pointless list filler in MWO?

I suspect that many of those supposed "MechDads" are BattleTech fans in the name only, and that they have never actually read the actual BattleTech source materials or actually played the tabletop BattleTech game. From what I have noticed, the majority of those "MechDads" has just skimmed a few pages on the fan-made Sarna website and that would be the grand total of their BattleTech knowledge.

Thus, they request various junk 'Mechs that they saw on Sarna, i.e. 'Mechs I guess any BattleTech fan gives **** about.

Wasp and Stinger are almost worthless 'Mechs in the desktop BattleTech:

• In 3025 games they serve just one purpose: To keep enemy force busy for one or two turns.
  
• 3050s power creep left them so behind that they are borderline useless.

And in MWO? They are just hardpoint-starved 20-tonners. Giving them some limited viability would require a lot of quirks and extra hardpoints. And for what, to waste the PGI's limited resources on 'Mechs that after two weeks disappear from the game?

Just consider some recent light 'Mechs in MWO:

• Fire Moth - a recent light 'Mech that I see in the game from time to time - and this is a quite new 'Mech
  
• Clan Flea - gone
  
• UrbanMech IIC - certain people campaigned so hard to see it in the game and where is it? All but gone.
  
• etc.

Marauder, Warhammer, Madcat or Thor are iconic BattleTech 'Mechs.

Wasp and Stinger?
LOL No.

[TercieI]

1453 R, on 29 March 2025 - 09:29 PM, said:

Friggin'...not THIS crap again...

Yes. This. Always this till it happens.

[Armored Yokai]

martian, on 30 March 2025 - 09:55 AM, said:

Wasp and Stinger?
LOL No.

Until you super quirk them

[Gasboy]

1453 R, on 30 March 2025 - 05:03 AM, said:

I will never understand why people keep demanding these things when they KNOW these 'Mechs will fail miserably in MWO. The most disturbingly dedicated PokeMech 'Mech Dads will buy them but never play them, and nobody else will buy them OR play them. The WHOLE, ENTIRE POINT of these two 'Mechs in the source material is "pointless list filler for when you don't have enough points left to do anything else more useful." Why would anyone voluntarily choose to be pointless list filler in MWO?

People put silly builds on their mechs, builds that get them killed.

It's a way to support PGI. And they'd be fun to run around in every once in a while.

[Armored Yokai]

Gasboy, on 30 March 2025 - 02:01 PM, said:

People put silly builds on their mechs, builds that get them killed.

It's a way to support PGI. And they'd be fun to run around in every once in a while.

People love to run sniper Shadowcats and Spiders
the stinger and wasp would be able to do the same thing with a smaller hitbox and about the same armor
if 65-80% cdr is actually used you can run 0.7-1+ second Binary lasers

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

martian, on 30 March 2025 - 09:55 AM, said:

I suspect that many of those supposed "MechDads" are BattleTech fans in the name only, and that they have never actually read the actual BattleTech source materials or actually played the tabletop BattleTech game. From what I have noticed, the majority of those "MechDads" has just skimmed a few pages on the fan-made Sarna website and that would be the grand total of their BattleTech knowledge.

Thus, they request various junk 'Mechs that they saw on Sarna, i.e. 'Mechs I guess any BattleTech fan gives **** about.

Wasp and Stinger are almost worthless 'Mechs in the desktop BattleTech:

• In 3025 games they serve just one purpose: To keep enemy force busy for one or two turns.
  
• 3050s power creep left them so behind that they are borderline useless.

And in MWO? They are just hardpoint-starved 20-tonners. Giving them some limited viability would require a lot of quirks and extra hardpoints. And for what, to waste the PGI's limited resources on 'Mechs that after two weeks disappear from the game?

Just consider some recent light 'Mechs in MWO:

• Fire Moth - a recent light 'Mech that I see in the game from time to time - and this is a quite new 'Mech
  
• Clan Flea - gone
  
• UrbanMech IIC - certain people campaigned so hard to see it in the game and where is it? All but gone.
  
• etc.

Marauder, Warhammer, Madcat or Thor are iconic BattleTech 'Mechs.

Wasp and Stinger?
LOL No.

my group squared off against a Davion lance containing a Stinger that endured for far more than 2 turns somehow, it was basically shredded all over, no arms, finally took a hip crit, failed pilot skill check, fell over and blew itself up, was kind of hilarious

Gasboy, on 30 March 2025 - 02:01 PM, said:

People put silly builds on their mechs, builds that get them killed.

It's a way to support PGI. And they'd be fun to run around in every once in a while.

I do that with urbies but I don't see the appeal with these?

[1453 R]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 30 March 2025 - 04:24 PM, said:

my group squared off against a Davion lance containing a Stinger that endured for far more than 2 turns somehow, it was basically shredded all over, no arms, finally took a hip crit, failed pilot skill check, fell over and blew itself up, was kind of hilarious

In the lore, the Wasp and Stinger (from here out: 'Wa/nger') are bothg literally "the 'Mech for someone who cannot afford literally any other 'Mech." even in the Succession Wars, the Wa/ngers were never actively sought out - you fielded them because they were what you had, and they were produced and sold in such numbers because they were piss easy and filthy cheap. They are very literally the Yugo of BattleMechs - the bottom-of-the-barrel pissboxes sent off to fringe March militias, refitted as trainers for snot-nosed goobers too untalented to merit wasting a Chameleon on, and thrown into combat only because everything better has already been thrown and you're down to the back of the local Discount Dan used 'Mech lot and praying whatever you find will hold long enough for Vicki Mechtech to spot-weld the gyro back into your Centurion.

In the tabletop game - which I have never played, but which I have researched enough to form some basic, incomplete opinions - every account I have heard is that the Wa/ngers serve the same purpose. They're there to take up space when nothing else better fits, or when the RAT lists throw them at you for a scratch-built pick-up game. People who are trying to win games do not go out of their way to include Wa/ngers in their lists. They have a few Wa/nger models here and there that occasionally see the light of day when they have just enough spare points left and no desire to run vehicles or infantry in their lists instead.

This idea people have that the Wa/nger is a vital and indispensable part of the Inner Sphere is just...nah. There's nothing the Wa/nger can do that other 'Mechs in MWO already have covered. "Super Jumpy Quirks!" Nah dawg - Spiders exist, and giving the Wa/nger better jumping than the Spider without having to pay slots or tonnage for it ain't cool. SuperMegaUltraQuirks for an I.S. 20-tonner? Again - Lawlcust. "The same durability as a Shadow Cat?" Absolutely bloody not, it is a twenty ton light 'Mech.

COULD they find a role for the Wa/nger? Mechanically, yes. Borked enough numbers can do anything. But that does not mean the Wa/nger would be good for the game, or that introducing a 'Mech that lives only by dint of having Actually Unfair levels of quirking specifically and solely to please 'Mech Dads - and not even all 'Mech Dads, just the "SUCC WARS IS THE ONLY BATTLETECH THAT COUNTS AS BATTLETECH" sorts - would not be irresponsible and deeply lame.

[Valdarion Silarius]

They would have to have insane quirks if they wanted any real sales outside from nostalgia. Something like 90% cooldown for energy/ballistic/missile similar to the Sigma, and people are already claiming that mech is bad for a legendary considering it's limited hardpoints. It would be awesome to have them as consumable, like for example if the pilot ejects and can get redeployed briefly on the battlefield as a stinger/wasp and for the clans a stinger IIC or a star of Elementals even if it was for a limited time. Knowing the state of the game I doubt that will ever happen but one can only hope maybe in MW:O 2.

[BlueDevilspawn]

New chassis are selected by PGI (with some select consultation). In today's world, anything picked usually has utility in MW5 Clans whether immediately or in the future for a DLC. This isn't the MWO of old with a new mech chassis every month.

Generally other criteria include things like enabling a unique playstyle or filling gaps in the lineup, and an undergunned IS 20 tonner is not anything close to resembling a gap. Yes, we did giga-quirk the Locust to make the most of its otherwise minimal hardpoints/firepower, but we inherited that mech. It's not exactly something we'd choose to put in.

Mechs like the Jenner-A and Mad Dog Sigma were one-off variants (not investing the time for a whole chassis) with gimmick quirks. The Jenner was a loyalty and the Sigma provide massive utility due to JJ beyond its so8 duration quick.

Finally, putting in the Stinger/Wasp would push off another more viable chassis that fills a gap in the mech lineup (yes there are still gaps), so that's an opportunity cost to consider.

[Lanzman]

Yep. As I've said before, about the only mechpack I'd spend money on these days is a Wasp/Stinger/Valkyrie three-fer. As for the lore, the Wasp and Stinger were very often used as training mechs because they were cheap and plentiful. Also militia mechs for the same reason.
And who can ever forget Mercer Ravannion's "horde" tactic?
Pretty sure you could make decent builds out of all three, given MWO's hard point inflation and things like magshots and light PPCs.

Edited by Lanzman, 31 March 2025 - 03:29 PM.