27 replies to this topic

[Flash Riprock]

Just shot down almost 1000 missiles, got 1 kill, 4 assists, 3 components destroyed and still got a down arrow.

Because I purposely chose to stay close the main body, and in cover, in order to shoot down missiles for my team, I didn't do much damage. So, I got a down arrow. (Piranah with 3 AMS)

I don't REALLY care about PSR (I stay pretty much low Tier 3). I just like to see how many missiles I can shoot down.

But, for anyone trying to climb the PSR ladder, what is the incentive to run support mechs? We always talk about teamwork and the importance of, but there really is no incentive.

[Ttly]

That's why it's called "pretending to be useful".
1000 missiles shot down doesn't really count for much when only like 1/3rd of them would've hit anything at best (and said hits would be highly spread on the targets, which lowers their impact even more), and doing it as a Piranha (fast moving glass cannon) is kind of a wasted player slot too, since you're just sticking with your team rather than hitting people in the back (one of the things Piranhas are actually good at) being the glass cannon (minus the cannon seeing as you wasted tonnage on AMS) it is.
If you really want to do it on a light, the KFX-C or the AMS Wolfhound are probably the only ones with a good excuse for it.
For medium there's the Nova and one of the MASC Phoenix Hawk (not that people run it as such), not much good AMS for heavies (there's like the +HSL Summoner with 2AMS I guess, or Catapult Jester and PPC HSL Thunderbolt), and meanwhile on the assault bracket you have the 4AMS Corsair obviously.

And really, I think AMS is just a pretty rude way to counter an entire weapon system (that's already not that impactful) as it doesn't really need more input than just "being in the right position at the right time" and goes through cover (something even LRMs has to deal with even with its indirect fire capability) to boot.
Imagine if reflective armor or the like gets added to counter laser damage types the same way.

Oh and don't bother boosting your PSR up, it's a total waste of time as your only real reward is longer matchmaking time, there's really no reason to get it up, just play whatever you find fun. It'd get up on its own naturally as long as you're not an active detriment to your team even if slower than you'd like.

Edited by Ttly, 06 April 2025 - 02:36 PM.

[LordNothing]

really depends on how you use them and what build you use. op seems to have broke even, and you can do really well with the right missile build. he did the right thing staying with the main body. hiding at the edge of your range and lobbing at idf targets just turns you into squirrel food.

dont develop a support mindset and you usually do well. missile boats can attack offensively if you choose good targets, engagement ranges, and operate as part of a team. teams love ams screens, though you do kind of have to weight it against how many missiles tend to show up in games. even the 4 ams corsair can still pack a good amount of firepower.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 April 2025 - 02:54 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Flash Riprock, on 06 April 2025 - 01:52 PM, said:

But, for anyone trying to climb the PSR ladder, what is the incentive to run support mechs?

None.

If you want to "climb the PSR ladder," do damage. That's really it.

[Meep Meep]

"Support" mechs are mainly the domain of lance or organized play because you can run a narc tag raven all day long in quick play and get almost no use of your scouting.

As said above if you want to climb the psr ladder you must do damage with as many solo and kill most damage done(kmdd) as you can squeeze in. I'd suggest something mobile with ecm and range until you get used to the playstyle. Cicada 3m with er large or a sun spider d with uac2 is a good teething mech.

[Flash Riprock]

Thanks everyone. I'm not really looking to climb the ladder. I am perfectly happy running light mechs and staying where I am. I totally go for the back stab/leg kills and hit and run style.

Occasionally, I run something different just to mix it up or because i see someone do something and think it looks fun.

It was more of an opinion-seeking question as to whether it is actually worth it from anyone else's experience.

Seems the answer is pretty much "no"

[Ttly]

Flash Riprock, on 06 April 2025 - 04:23 PM, said:

Thanks everyone. I'm not really looking to climb the ladder. I am perfectly happy running light mechs and staying where I am. I totally go for the back stab/leg kills and hit and run style.

Occasionally, I run something different just to mix it up or because i see someone do something and think it looks fun.

It was more of an opinion-seeking question as to whether it is actually worth it from anyone else's experience.

Seems the answer is pretty much "no"

Well for what it's worth, you can get like 300 match scores with only 200 damage just running around on something like the ECM Arctic Cheetah just keeping people spotted because keeping people spotted weirdly does increase your score in some unlisted esoteric way.
I know because I've tried something like that before.

Anyway, that aside there are also other jankier way to "support" your team.
You can try something like flamer builds to help with brawlers, turning 2v1s into a certain win/hopefully minimizing damage to your teammate or the like.

Edited by Ttly, 06 April 2025 - 05:49 PM.

[LordNothing]

Ttly, on 06 April 2025 - 05:23 PM, said:

Well for what it's worth, you can get like 300 match scores with only 200 damage just running around on something like the ECM Arctic Cheetah just keeping people spotted because keeping people spotted weirdly does increase your score in some unlisted esoteric way.
I know because I've tried something like that before.

Anyway, that aside there are also other jankier way to "support" your team.
You can try something like flamer builds to help with brawlers, turning 2v1s into a certain win/hopefully minimizing damage to your teammate or the like.

its not so esoteric, the bonuses are listed there. scouting, flanking, locked damage, spotting, hit and runs. all you have to do is lock while doing occasional pop shots. so long as you stay engaged the bonuses will come. you will do better than people who spend a lot of time staring at rocks while doing intermittent damage bursts.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 April 2025 - 06:39 PM.

[Ttly]

LordNothing, on 06 April 2025 - 06:37 PM, said:

its not so esoteric, the bonuses are listed there. scouting, flanking, locked damage, spotting, hit and runs. all you have to do is lock while doing occasional pop shots. so long as you stay engaged the bonuses will come. you will do better than people who spend a lot of time staring at rocks while doing intermittent damage bursts.

No, it's not the "Scouting" or "Spotting Assist" ribbons, you only get the former on first lock-ons anyway, and the latter only if someone actually has LRMs and hit whatever you're staring at which is rather rare.
I'm talking about keeping people up as red squares on the map and keeping it that way like a glorified mobile UAV with more than 10 hitpoints.

I mean look at these, from a match earlier I did on a silly LRM10+2ERML ACH-A:

Spoiler

Most thing I did was jump around and keeping people spotted through it yet I outscore people that did more actual damage (either in enemy health percentages or raw damage number) regardless, and the ribbon count related to scouting is rather low outside of the initial first spotting [Scouting] ribbon sure.

Edited by Ttly, 06 April 2025 - 09:53 PM.

[LordNothing]

Ttly, on 06 April 2025 - 07:14 PM, said:

No, it's not the "Scouting" or "Spotting Assist" ribbons, you only get the former on first lock-ons anyway, and the latter only if someone actually has LRMs and hit whatever you're staring at which is rather rare.
I'm talking about keeping people up as red squares on the map and keeping it that way like a glorified mobile UAV with more than 10 hitpoints.

those are just examples. there are at least four spotting related bonuses.

[Saved By The Bell]

Dont listen them. You did a great job. I play LRMs from time to time, so such one light with AMS is turning me in nothing.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i have always considered LRMs to be a support weapon myself (i used to love lurms, now only meh due to velocity nerfs). get locks wherever you can damage is damage. hell you got your team pushing a choke point, well you can lobe missiles over their heads adding to the damage output. they also tend to make the enemy run for cover more often than not. an enemy not shooting your team is that much damage off the field.

all in all i say play how you want and whatever brings you a shred of joy in this crumbling world. hell as someone who plays a LOT of Tbolts these days, i will take all the lock assist i can get (a simple tactic is getting the lock before you expose yourself, helps keep your stare downs low.

[crazytimes]

Did you have fun? If so then keep doing what you're doing. If you didn't have fun, then probably don't play like that.

If you don't care about PSR it's kind of odd making a thread about it, but at least you've realised you're not actually fighting so that is good.

[Djinnhammer]

Flash Riprock, on 06 April 2025 - 04:23 PM, said:

Thanks everyone. I'm not really looking to climb the ladder. I am perfectly happy running light mechs and staying where I am. I totally go for the back stab/leg kills and hit and run style.

Occasionally, I run something different just to mix it up or because i see someone do something and think it looks fun.

It was more of an opinion-seeking question as to whether it is actually worth it from anyone else's experience.

Seems the answer is pretty much "no"

I run narc lights sometimes there seems to be a curse though-anytime I do no one has missiles....or if they do they are seemingly incapable of pressing LMB when they see narc beacon...

[Void Angel]

Flash Riprock, on 06 April 2025 - 01:52 PM, said:

Just shot down almost 1000 missiles, got 1 kill, 4 assists, 3 components destroyed and still got a down arrow.

Because I purposely chose to stay close the main body, and in cover, in order to shoot down missiles for my team, I didn't do much damage. So, I got a down arrow. (Piranah with 3 AMS)

I don't REALLY care about PSR (I stay pretty much low Tier 3). I just like to see how many missiles I can shoot down.

But, for anyone trying to climb the PSR ladder, what is the incentive to run support mechs? We always talk about teamwork and the importance of, but there really is no incentive.

There's not really a support 'mech, and you shouldn't generally build your 'mech around that concept. There are support equipment choices, like AMS, but if you're not helping to kill the enemy directly, your match score will suffer. This is by design. It's not perfect; you really are helping by reducing an incoming LRM boat's DPS by 50-70%. But if they push up the match score components of things like ECM shielding and AMS contributions, there's some pretty severe opportunity costs: you're going to see matches where multiple people showing up to "play support," crippling the team; and you're going to see players advancing into the upper tiers, where those support systems are not as needed, without picking up the skills they need to fight other 'mechs directly.

[1Exitar1]

It used to be that shooting down missiles counted towards your score. Then they removed that and shooting down missiles counted for nothing at all. They then decided to give money per missile shot down. So, other than saving your teammates from damage, being a support mech does nothing except lower your score because you can't do the damage a similar mech with an offensive loadout can do.

I generally bring in an AMS mech when players are running missiles a lot. Do that for a few matches and people tend to stop bringing missile boats to the game because they aren't doing the damage they want. Then I can go back to an offensive build. I generally use a Kitfox with 3 AMS and some lasers for my support mech.

[CFC Conky]

1Exitar1, on 08 April 2025 - 08:55 AM, said:

It used to be that shooting down missiles counted towards your score. Then they removed that and shooting down missiles counted for nothing at all. They then decided to give money per missile shot down. So, other than saving your teammates from damage, being a support mech does nothing except lower your score because you can't do the damage a similar mech with an offensive loadout can do.

I generally bring in an AMS mech when players are running missiles a lot. Do that for a few matches and people tend to stop bringing missile boats to the game because they aren't doing the damage they want. Then I can go back to an offensive build. I generally use a Kitfox with 3 AMS and some lasers for my support mech.

Shooting down missiles used to add quite a lot to one's match score and folks were gaming the system so they removed that bonus. These days I usually only run AMS when there is an event that rewards shooting down a certain number of missiles. Through experience I've learned to use hard cover and maneuvering to reduce damage received though I still get killed by LRMS a couple of times a year.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[LordNothing]

CFC Conky, on 08 April 2025 - 09:57 AM, said:

Shooting down missiles used to add quite a lot to one's match score and folks were gaming the system so they removed that bonus. These days I usually only run AMS when there is an event that rewards shooting down a certain number of missiles. Through experience I've learned to use hard cover and maneuvering to reduce damage received though I still get killed by LRMS a couple of times a year.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

they nerfed that, you cant farm match score with ams. it does earn cbills now though.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 April 2025 - 03:29 PM.

[Gasboy]

Flash Riprock, on 06 April 2025 - 01:52 PM, said:

But, for anyone trying to climb the PSR ladder, what is the incentive to run support mechs? We always talk about teamwork and the importance of, but there really is no incentive.

Making the red mechs blow up first IS supporting your team. "Support mech" in the sense that you are thinking isn't really a thing, and there's little reward.

[1453 R]

There's a reason the only 3+ AMS 'Mech in common use is the COR-7A. A 'Mech that cannot effectively deliver violence to the enemy is a 'Mech that is a liability to the team. No amount of NARC hits or AMA coverage or whatever else is worth sacrificing an entire 'Mech's worth of combat strength for.

That doesn't mean you can't do those things. Far from it! But it DOES mean you have to be able to fight as well as a 'Mech without them, for the most part. You still have to be able to aggress the enemy and win gunfights. If you cannot, you are dead weight. Simply imagine how annoyed the team would be if your effectively unarmed AMS boat is the final 'Mech alive on the team versus a single damaged enemy you could have killed and clutched out, if you had more than a pointlessly token offensive armament. That should cure the desire to play a passive "support" game.

Remember. The Victor is, canonically, classified as a Support 'Mech. It supports its allies by jumping into the fray and blowing holes in the enemy with its giant autocannon. Support your team like a Victor, not like an unarmed quad AMS Piranha.