58 replies to this topic

[nanashi0110]

I think it's been about a week since the update.
The main highlight of this update is probably the Black Laner armor buff rather than the BANE MC sales.
Especially the head and back armor +18 seems like a deal breaker.
I am thinking it will probably be a meta medium, what do you guys think?

Here are my impressions.
・This toughness at top class speed feels pretty heinous.
・Much better as a light/medium killer.
・I don't feel it has much of an impact on heavies/assaults.

Is this a good balance to counter the currently raging (I believe) firemoths and LCT-PBs, and encourage interception by heavies and assaults? I feel that it is.
In fact, the chances of being attacked by back armor are less than you might think, and most of the time, the CT (or side T) is destroyed head-on and knocked down.

[Swamp Butt]

The survivability of it, has gotten tanky, very tanky. This really does make up for the **** loadout capability, and hitboxes. I can see this being a meta medium once again.

[GreyNovember]

In what sense is it "Overpowered"?

Because a Black Lanner is a VERY LARGE medium mech, trying to be a light mech, while not being as fast, with very limited tonnage, limited ability to turn and torso twist to track targets, and no lower arm actuators to aim.

It is very easy to see, shoot, and hit, and will likely lose it's arms, the location it carries all it's important weapons, very quickly.

Having tried to make it work, I'd rather drive a light mech that does the job of very fast striker and anti light dogfighter SO much better.

Or drive a storm crow. The thing that is effectively almost as fast for sustained speed, but actually has the tonnage to mount something that is NOT just 6 Medium Lasers.

[Ttly]

Hmm yes I love being able to take like 500-700 damage on a fast medium.
Anyway firepower wise it's still pretty limited by its heat, I think only the 6ERML BKL-C really sells it with 6ERML and -22.5% laser duration So8 for a fast medium.

The ECM variants are decent, pretty good for annoying people with, the A with its strong C-ERPPC/C-LPPC -heat in particular can harass for quite a while if left alone, while the PRIME can harass with C-ERLL+LRMs and spot aggressively (which it can do without getting shot right away because ECM) to use the LRMs even.
But they still depend on their team not folding too early to let it do its share of damage on account of the heat.

The BKL-D is still an awkward mix of MGs+lasers+SRM, and the BKL-E with its +400% missile velo broke LRMs and ATMs and using an SRM6 as a substitute LB10 is just not really working out for it. The Bellonarius is also in an awkward spot akin to the D.

[Ilfi]

The only things keeping the Lanner above water are the massive armor quirks it was given to compensate for it being an extremely FAT Medium, with only 11.5 tons of ordnance on legs as thick as the average Heavy. Ultimately even with all those quirks, it's not punching any harder than the average Light, while being much easier to hit and leg. It's nice that it's doing better than it was at launch, but it's still nothing to write home about IMO. Give me a Bushwacker over it any day of the week.

[Meep Meep]

Lanners don't die in a wink now and thats just fine since they are tonnage limited on what they can run. The main thing I think most are complaining about is the all armor quirk giving the back 21 armor after nodes. It's very hard to backstab them now and those that are smart are overtwisting to spread even more damage around.

[Tiy0s]

Blanner was overbuffed and is currently OP. Cauldron has confirmed that they are eyeing options to nerf it. My money is on armor reduction.

[Ttly]

To what? Only +12 or +10 FB armor and +6 to +8 on ST/CT/Leg armor?
Hah, so much for the whole "simplifying overly lengthy quirk lists" if I do say so myself. And another year of flip-flopping changes on the same chassis over and over.
Most of the changes in that direction has been rather ham-fisted and excused with "for the sake of readability" as well which seems demeaning you ask me.

Really, the heat quirks, stuff like ammo, even -duration on the other variants are actually stuff I'd agree with.
Basically a permit allowing people that play them well to just keep firing their weapons (heat) or an increase on their attacks' effectiveness depending on how well they'd position themselves (because exposing more to use said quirks means being able to be shot back if done carelessly, and the high engine tonnage+limited hardpoint count[enforced additionally by what should be reliance on So8 quirks] inherently limits the alpha/cooling tonnage that are ever so much more valuable in the meta).

The fullbody armor stuff is somewhat overkill on top, and is a crutch to make playing it a lot more forgiving when it already has stuff the like of ECM (not all variants) and MASC as a defensive measure. Granted, it does have stuff like large leg hitboxes, and the high mobility does make exposing the rear armor (on top of its large hitbox) to be often an inevitability due to limited torso yaw angle.

The +400% missile velocity on BKL-E basically soft-banning it from using anything other than SRMs because God forbid anyone runs anything other than them on it, and the shortsightedness of not splitting it between SRM and missile velocity, is rather clumsy as well. I guess there's also the BKL-C (-15% heat and -22.5% laser burn) and ERLL builds too, though I guess you can look at the SCR-PRIME to say that there's not much issues against Medium C-ERLL snipers so it can stay the way it is sans armor?

Dare I ask if they have any plans for the Ice Ferret which occupies a similar role in most builds and variants, yet does it mostly worse save for being easier to play because no MASC other than on IFR-J too?

[nanashi0110]

<p>

GreyNovember, on 30 May 2025 - 07:42 AM, said:

</p>
<p>In what sense is it &quot;Overpowered&quot;?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Because a Black Lanner is a VERY LARGE medium mech, trying to be a light mech, while not being as fast, with very limited tonnage, limited ability to turn and torso twist to track targets, and no lower arm actuators to aim.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It is very easy to see, shoot, and hit, and will likely lose it's arms, the location it carries all it's important weapons, very quickly.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Having tried to make it work, I'd rather drive a light mech that does the job of very fast striker and anti light dogfighter SO much better.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Or drive a storm crow. The thing that is effectively almost as fast for sustained speed, but actually has the tonnage to mount something that is NOT just 6 Medium Lasers.</p>
<p>

</p>
<p>I don't think a MECH running around at about 115~140 kph is slow...</p>
<p>It is hard not to see the advantage of having +18 armor distributed throughout the body, but the following advantages make it quite powerful.</p>
<p>1．So far, we have succeeded in reducing the armor from 9.6 tons to 5.6 tons (on GrimMech).</p>
<p>2．The problem has gone away when all back armor is replaced or removed with front armor.</p>
<p>3．The +18 armor is buffed to +21 by acquiring the skill.</p>
<p>4．(As mentioned above), this medium MECH with its incredible armor can run at up to 140 kph (150 or so if skill is included?). </p>
<p>Not a problem for assaults, heavies, or damage-focused mediums... For light MECH it is a big wall.</p>
<p>However, it is not a completely exterminating entity, so it is meta, but not OP....</p>
<p>

Ilfi, on 30 May 2025 - 11:43 AM, said:

The only things keeping the Lanner above water are the massive armor quirks it was given to compensate for it being an extremely FAT Medium, with only 11.5 tons of ordnance on legs as thick as the average Heavy. Ultimately even with all those quirks, it's not punching any harder than the average Light, while being much easier to hit and leg. It's nice that it's doing better than it was at launch, but it's still nothing to write home about IMO. Give me a Bushwacker over it any day of the week.

</p>
<div>I think Bushwacker and Black Laner have different roles.</div>
<div>Bushwacker is good at fighting from the front, while Black Laner seems to be good at fighting from the flanks and securing areas.</div>
<p>I feel that Black Laner is better in terms of improving the quality of the team.</p>
<p>

Meep Meep, on 30 May 2025 - 01:10 PM, said:

Lanners don't die in a wink now and thats just fine since they are tonnage limited on what they can run. The main thing I think most are complaining about is the all armor quirk giving the back 21 armor after nodes. It's very hard to backstab them now and those that are smart are overtwisting to spread even more damage around.

</p>
<p>I think it would be really bad to have 21 points deployed all over the body. But I honestly don't think back armor works very well.</p>
<p>

Tiy0s, on 30 May 2025 - 01:14 PM, said:

Blanner was overbuffed and is currently OP. Cauldron has confirmed that they are eyeing options to nerf it. My money is on armor reduction.

</p>
<div>Hmmm, I don't think cutting armor is a very good idea, I think it would be better to have a different type of armour, one that is more durable, and one that is more durable.</div>
<div>I would be happy if it was changed to All front armor (including arms, legs and head) instead of All ARMOR.</div>
<div>I think it is because of FirePowerQuirk that it is a little bit over the top, so I think the right thing to do is to adjust that.</div>

[Davegt27]

the BLK Lanner is really not OP

they buffed it because the use numbers where low
when the use numbers increase it will get nerfed

no big deal

they are not really hurting anything

[GreyNovember]

nanashi0110, on 30 May 2025 - 05:42 PM, said:

<p></p>
<p>I don't think a MECH running around at about 115~140 kph is slow...</p>
<p>It is hard not to see the advantage of having +18 armor distributed throughout the body, but the following advantages make it quite powerful.</p>
<p>1．So far, we have succeeded in reducing the armor from 9.6 tons to 5.6 tons (on GrimMech).</p>
<p>2．The problem has gone away when all back armor is replaced or removed with front armor.</p>
<p>3．The +18 armor is buffed to +21 by acquiring the skill.</p>
<p>4．(As mentioned above), this medium MECH with its incredible armor can run at up to 140 kph (150 or so if skill is included?). </p>
<p>Not a problem for assaults, heavies, or damage-focused mediums... For light MECH it is a big wall.</p>
<p>However, it is not a completely exterminating entity, so it is meta, but not OP....</p>

It's slow relative to it's size. A smaller mech running faster is hit much less, and you need to be significantly faster or more agile to reach something resembling parity. Nobody cares about running at 150, because you can't shoot while doing it, and you are limited how long you can do it.

This is only effective against mechs that are much slower than you already; you can't escape mechs that will chase you down, and you probably can't fight mechs that DO chase you down, and force you to engage instead of run away. So nothing is really gained.

The armor you have is not for fighting, but for covering your mistakes in poking. Nobody has any trouble hitting it, so your additional armor is an extra AC20 round. It's not nothing, but it's not going to make a decisive difference for most cases. You can maybe get away with one more poke against people who can aim at your mech consistently, but cannot threaten them more.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

I see good players do insane things in it. I see a lot of blanners get wrecked. Kind of like Shadowcats maybe

[Flyby215]

Tiy0s, on 30 May 2025 - 01:14 PM, said:

Blanner was overbuffed and is currently OP. Cauldron has confirmed that they are eyeing options to nerf it. My money is on armor reduction.

I feel like this is the Trebuchet nerf again. No one really sees a Blanner and thinks 'high level threat'.

Of course, I'm fully biased as the Bellonarius is formerly one of my favourite mechs with over 3,000 matches played in one. It's back to where it was in the glory days: chasing down lights, dueling lonely snipers, and preying on anything that's bleeding. Must Nerf!

Perhaps I misunderstand something about the data: why is it that mechs must perform relative to their tonnage? Would this not mean that a player will statistically perform better than their peers merely by selecting a higher tonnage? I think it would be considered progression in any single player instance, but is this actually the norm for player vs player?

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Flyby215, on 30 May 2025 - 09:29 PM, said:

I feel like this is the Trebuchet nerf again. No one really sees a Blanner and thinks 'high level threat'.

Of course, I'm fully biased as the Bellonarius is formerly one of my favourite mechs with over 3,000 matches played in one. It's back to where it was in the glory days: chasing down lights, dueling lonely snipers, and preying on anything that's bleeding. Must Nerf!

Perhaps I misunderstand something about the data: why is it that mechs must perform relative to their tonnage? Would this not mean that a player will statistically perform better than their peers merely by selecting a higher tonnage? I think it would be considered progression in any single player instance, but is this actually the norm for player vs player?

Idk I see one and I tend to wonder if the pilot might actually know how to use it, kind of like a Shadowcat, though I quickly figure out which Shadowcats are "yeah nah low threat level"

[Meep Meep]

Ttly, on 30 May 2025 - 03:25 PM, said:

Hah, so much for the whole "simplifying overly lengthy quirk lists" if I do say so myself. And another year of flip-flopping changes on the same chassis over and over.

There is no longer either a public test server or any form of test server anymore. All changes have to be live tested so that means sometimes overbuffs make it through. Enjoy you blanner till the next patch cycle.

A workaround solution would be to make cauldron only 'press' accounts tracked by ip by pgi and then copy paste the mechs that are going to get changed into a new set of mechs that have the new stats. These can then be used by cauldron on the special clients to form private lobbies and do at least some form of mass testing. Add in a public event they can drop into and bang there you go ghetto test server.

[Ttly]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 30 May 2025 - 09:27 PM, said:

I see good players do insane things in it. I see a lot of blanners get wrecked. Kind of like Shadowcats maybe

It's really more like the Ferroblast without the hardpoint count/customability (but also more options through variants/clan stuff).

Edited by Ttly, 31 May 2025 - 02:39 AM.

[HenryFA]

nerf 1/2 of the armor given to the Blanner should be ok.

Also worth to mention the E varient, please adjust the missile "buffs" so they can actually hit the taget lol

[Cyborne Elemental]

Keep the Arm and Leg armor with the buff, or transfer the armor to structure.

Then half the full body bonus on CT/RT/LT.

Its a decent skirmisher for midrange, but the asymmetry on the arms and LA having the most Hardpoints as well as being huge make it too easy to disarm.

Its pretty much a ShadowCat with no JJ, and fairly squishy if you're not using MASC most of the time.

[Swamp Butt]

The bst time a Black Lanner is used, is in the Wolf Pack. When wolf packing with an "appropiate" group, they are very well worth it.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

I used to play this mech all the time as a brawler, but in a land of 80 fld alphas as the norm, why play a mech with such limitations? The recent armor buffs are the only thing that make this Mech viable again as a brawler. People have already pointed out it's many and major flaws, so no point going over them again.

The only build where I can see it being a real issue after the armor buff is the HLL + ER ML backstab build. I've never played that build, but from what I've seen you would have had to sacrifice a fair amount of armor to make the tonnage work. If you're gonna drop armor, might as well run it on the ECM ferret since it's got a much much better hitbox. Edit: Now that shaving armor isn't an issue, the build and mech are attractive again.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 03 June 2025 - 03:29 PM.