32 replies to this topic

[wamX]

I've been doing some scouring of topics trying to temper some severe frustration about MWO. Ill take a break from MWO, come back when new tech or weapons come out or just have a BattleTech itch and want to play. I've been stuck in this extreme feedback loop for almost six months now.

Ill try to optimize a build, utilize the quirks and build something around it, and see maybe some success. (Think two MRM30s in that one Awesome variant with +180% MRM velocity) Ill play some matches with confidence, and actually work my way out of T4 and see Tier 3 for a fleeting moment.

Every game afterward in T3 is immediate 0-12 stomps, with instant one-shot deaths, RAC spam punishment, and having someone headshot me (while somehow hitting nothing else mech-wise) with PPCs.

Sure maybe I could position better and do xyz, but thats not the point of this post.

I mean how, now after getting shot back to 75% T4 after non-stop punishment, with every post I've seen on how PSR stuff works, I'm winning games but losing skill rating.

I've attached the last game I was in as a hope to have some explanation.

I rebuilt a Raven 3L with Stealth/ECM, 2MLs, SRM6, NARC and TAG with 3 UAVs to try and provide support for other teammates.

The first several minutes of the match I was NARC-ing and tagging for with my luck come to find out, the only team I've ever been on without a LRM boat on it.

Smart Timberwolf saw me and shredded a side torso open in one laser volley so from there it was reposition and try and pick off one of the crippled enemy ice ferrets, which ended immediately after a single AC20 shot from range.

https://gyazo.com/46...b3fc95a99f77f0d

https://gyazo.com/4f...791584a9aaf104d

Is there something I'm just doing wrong? Is the system just that skewed? Feels like any game, unless Im getting 5+ kills, 900 damage, and so on I'm either staying even or going down

[martian]

wamX, on 22 June 2025 - 11:13 AM, said:

I've been doing some scouring of topics trying to temper some severe frustration about MWO. Ill take a break from MWO, come back when new tech or weapons come out or just have a BattleTech itch and want to play. I've been stuck in this extreme feedback loop for almost six months now.

Greetings!

wamX, on 22 June 2025 - 11:13 AM, said:

Ill try to optimize a build, utilize the quirks and build something around it, and see maybe some success. (Think two MRM30s in that one Awesome variant with +180% MRM velocity) Ill play some matches with confidence, and actually work my way out of T4 and see Tier 3 for a fleeting moment.

Your idea, that you should design your loadouts around the quirks that a 'Mech has, is a good one.

wamX, on 22 June 2025 - 11:13 AM, said:

Every game afterward in T3 is immediate 0-12 stomps, with instant one-shot deaths, RAC spam punishment, and having someone headshot me (while somehow hitting nothing else mech-wise) with PPCs.

Sure maybe I could position better and do xyz, but thats not the point of this post.

I mean how, now after getting shot back to 75% T4 after non-stop punishment, with every post I've seen on how PSR stuff works, I'm winning games but losing skill rating.

PSR is a match making tool, not some kind of reward that should be earned or achieved.

Play as you like, use 'Mechs and loadouts that you like. Let PSR do its job. Eventually, PSR will move you to the most appropriate Tier, i.e. Tier where you will face other players of your skill level and running similar 'Mechs.

The most important thing is the willingness to learn from your mistakes.

wamX, on 22 June 2025 - 11:13 AM, said:

I rebuilt a Raven 3L with Stealth/ECM, 2MLs, SRM6, NARC and TAG with 3 UAVs to try and provide support for other teammates.

The first several minutes of the match I was NARC-ing and tagging for with my luck come to find out, the only team I've ever been on without a LRM boat on it.

Smart Timberwolf saw me and shredded a side torso open in one laser volley so from there it was reposition and try and pick off one of the crippled enemy ice ferrets, which ended immediately after a single AC20 shot from range.

Is there something I'm just doing wrong?

Please, do not take it personally, but ... Yes.

The first thing that has caught my eye is the loadout of your Raven. Unless you are playing with a premade group and you are positive that the other 3 players are deploying in LRM boats with a ton of LRMs, it is better not to use NARC and TAG in Quick Play games.

After all, you have noticed that you can never be sure that your team will use LRMs. Essentially, you wasted 4-5 tons on useless equipment. That would be a bad decision even on an Assault-class 'Mech, and it is more so on a light 'Mech where you count every half ton. So get rid off it. Equip your Raven with weapons that actually do damage and kill enemy 'Mechs.

wamX, on 22 June 2025 - 11:13 AM, said:

Is the system just that skewed? Feels like any game, unless Im getting 5+ kills, 900 damage, and so on I'm either staying even or going down

You can watch this fan video:


Imagine it as a list of 24 players, sorted according to their Match Score (the players of the victorious team get a small bonus) after the game - from the player with the highest Match Score descending to the player with the lowest Match Score. The upper 12 'Mechs get the green arrow, the lower half of the list gets the red arrow. The higher you are among the "green" 'Mechs, the higher is your PSR raise. The same is true for the "red" Mechs - in the negative sense, of course. The lower you are in that imaginary list, the greater your PSR fall.

Thus, in one game some Match Score can be good enough to place you in the upper half of the list, and in the next game the same Match Score could place you in the lower half of the list.

I must commend you for posting both relevant screenshots.

wamX, on 22 June 2025 - 11:13 AM, said:

I've attached the last game I was in as a hope to have some explanation.

As I mentioned above, your performance is compared with the performance of your team mates and the performance of enemy players.

As a rule of thumb, two worst players of the winning team usually get the red arrow and two best players of the defeated team get the green arrow.

Please do not take it personally, but you were the second weakest player of your team. Only that guy in the Wolverine had lower Match Score.

wamX, on 22 June 2025 - 11:13 AM, said:

I've attached the last game I was in as a hope to have some explanation.

Honestly, 172 point of damage is quite low. Try to aim for some 500 damage and maybe 1 kill or so.

Other than that: 10 assist is good, your secondary activities are also okay.

Edited by martian, 22 June 2025 - 08:35 PM.

[Drenzul]

Quote

Smart Timberwolf saw me and shredded a side torso open in one laser volley so from there it was reposition and try and pick off one of the crippled enemy ice ferrets, which ended immediately after a single AC20 shot from range.

One of two things happened here:

1> You were standing still
2> You forgot to add armour to your Raven

Only time headshots from anything but lasers happen with any regularity is if you are standing still.
Don't do that.

You need to be constantly moving and twisting particularly while under enemy fire to make sure that they can't
concentrate an entire burst in a single location. A single burst from anything shouldn't really take out a raven's shoulder
unless you were still enough they could focus it.

Make sure you've built your much to be decently fast as well. A slow light is kinda pointless.

[BlueDevilspawn]

Martian is absolutely correct in his assessment and the examples he is sharing. I will add one more thing.

Be default, matchmaker uses a 2-wide band of tiers to form a lobby. So, if you’re in tier 5, you can match up to tier 3. If you’re tier 4, you get matched down to tier 5 and up to tier 2. When you hit tier 3, you get matched down to tier 5 and up to tier 1. Because PSR is capped, tier 1 has a wider spectrum of skill than even tier 5 to tier 2. At the worst, you have people who cheesed their way into tier 1. At the best you have the gold champs. What worked in low tiers almost certainly does not against them. The best of the best in tier 1 move faster, position better, shoot faster and more accurately, and have a very aggressive mindset in general. Tier 3 is often an eye opener for many who progressed from 5 to 3.

[MrMadguy]

Don't waste your time. MM isn't functional. Only thing, that may be functional - is anti-Tier-1 protection in Tier 4. Once you're in Tier 3 - you're in Tier 1 world. Tier 4 is more like old Tier 2.

[Saved By The Bell]

(voice from Jupiter)

Learn, learn my son. Try all mechs and builds. Dont listen potato calls and commands, feel situation and have fun.

[martian]

MrMadguy, on 22 June 2025 - 10:10 PM, said:

Don't waste your time. MM isn't functional. Only thing, that may be functional - is anti-Tier-1 protection in Tier 4. Once you're in Tier 3 - you're in Tier 1 world. Tier 4 is more like old Tier 2.

Please stop spreading your disinformations and whining.

Your own regular and personal whining thread is here: Can Matchmaker Be Even Worse?

Thank you.

[nanashi0110]

SBMM has a large player population and the more active players, the better the intended effect.
In other words, yes. It is broken, or practically dysfunctional.

[Blown Head Gasket]

Toso twist, stay with team, use comms, don't be afraid to get paint scratched, don't stop durring the rotatoe, hold when it's a good poissition, and call out target (Voice).

Oh, I want to add. Some people on here, intentionally start smurf accounts, that are tier one players, yet keep those account arround tier 3, just to get away from the sweatyness of tier 1 play.

You also get some tier 1 players that group que with tier 4 to 5 players, and end up in games with tier 3 > 4 players, and that turns out to be pretty bad.

All the above is also relevant to the number of active players in QP Que. You could see a player from both tier 1, and tier 5, when there are not a lot of players overall.

I have found that the tier 2 > 3, is the fun spot, and more active que times.

Edited by Swamp Ass MkII, 23 June 2025 - 09:44 AM.

[Ttly]

It's a broken system because it has an upward trend by default you ask me, unless you're bad enough to the point that it feels almost intentional griefing/sabotaging your own team.
So yeah, it's useless.

[lastchanceforaslowdance]

like mentioned, the points in the first reply by martian are very good

the matchmaker is prone to being unkind for stretches at a time, particularly as the overall player base decreases. It's just the way it goes. My w/l ratio dropped off a cliff this month while other appreciable metrics have been mostly constant. not blaming the MM for my poor performance completely, but solo-dropping in light tonnage can start to feel like your effect on match outcomes is tenuous at best

I would just keep plugging along and even appreciate the fact that you've room for movement at all in the PSR system.

[East Indy]

Ttly, on 27 June 2025 - 08:31 AM, said:

It's a broken system because it has an upward trend by default you ask me, unless you're bad enough to the point that it feels almost intentional griefing/sabotaging your own team.
So yeah, it's useless.

The update from 5(!) years ago was better than Paul's initial design but still doesn't model the bell curve seen clearly on Jarl's.

Groups obviously throw off balance considerably, but in true solo play, match quality would be greatly improved even if all tiers were represented through effective secondary lobby balancing. A lot of people disbelieve, but widely varying skill levels would be fine if evenly distributed.

Instead, there's a matchmaker deliberately blind to "Tier 1" including 200, 275 and 400 matchscore players, and then randomly dealing them to teams.

[LordNothing]

look whos in t2 again. based on that, yes, totally broken.

[LordNothing]

Blown Head Gasket, on 23 June 2025 - 09:37 AM, said:

Toso twist, stay with team, use comms, don't be afraid to get paint scratched, don't stop durring the rotatoe, hold when it's a good poissition, and call out target (Voice).

Oh, I want to add. Some people on here, intentionally start smurf accounts, that are tier one players, yet keep those account arround tier 3, just to get away from the sweatyness of tier 1 play.

You also get some tier 1 players that group que with tier 4 to 5 players, and end up in games with tier 3 > 4 players, and that turns out to be pretty bad.

All the above is also relevant to the number of active players in QP Que. You could see a player from both tier 1, and tier 5, when there are not a lot of players overall.

I have found that the tier 2 > 3, is the fun spot, and more active que times.

t3 is definately best tier. if things get too sweaty in t2 i just run c tier or less mechs and i drop like a stone. i have a lot of those. got to 2 because the grand summoners and commando iic arent total crap. i expect to lose it when the banes come out for cbills next month, or as i finish the event (still need about 60 components to sweep it).

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

There is one little bit of schadenfreude I revel in at T3 during off hours and that's seeing the occasional case of "hotshot player on Red getting completely undermined and thrown away by his own team earlyish and having a less bountiful harvest than usual"

They likely don't dwell on it long but it's funny as f**k to me.

[Meep Meep]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 29 June 2025 - 10:52 AM, said:

There is one little bit of schadenfreude I revel in at T3 during off hours and that's seeing the occasional case of "hotshot player on Red getting completely undermined and thrown away by his own team earlyish and having a less bountiful harvest than usual"

They likely don't dwell on it long but it's funny as f**k to me.

Oh no. The top t1 sweats when dropping solo absolutely let it boil up into an extended frenzy of extreme annoyance when their puggies strike out on them. No need to name names they know who they are.

[LordNothing]

frankly its a game and anyone who plays too much into it id probibly is not mature enough to play video games. 3 year old who throws the controller when they lose comes to mind. i dont think top players fall into this category, they can take and learn from a loss. thats why they are good. they sometimes have humiliating defeats. a stray shot from a t5 can drop a t1 if rngesus smiles on them that day. thats a fluke for a 5 and a minor annoyance for a 1. even if someone takes it badly it will be forgotten by the time the next game drops.

[pbiggz]

MrMadguy, on 22 June 2025 - 10:10 PM, said:

Don't waste your time. MM isn't functional. Only thing, that may be functional - is anti-Tier-1 protection in Tier 4. Once you're in Tier 3 - you're in Tier 1 world. Tier 4 is more like old Tier 2.

You were lying when you made the last 6 threads about this. You'll be lying when you make your next. You are lying now. I know you wont respond to this comment because you are a liar.

[BlueDevilspawn]

The last time there was a split of data on the active player base, the numbers broke down roughly as -

Tier 1 - 11.71%
Tier 2 - 7.84%
Tier 3 - 18.76%
Tier 4 - 19.84%
Tier 5 - 41.83%

Note that this is active... so ALL accounts means even more Tier 5, likely at or over 50%.

Tier progression/PSR/MM is NOT progressive. There is NO upward trend. It's NOT an experience bar (it once was). 50k games of Tier 5 is 50k games of Tier 5. Progress upwards is entirely dependent on your results. If you are above average in the 24 person lobbies, you will progress gradually if slowly through all the tiers. Tier 2 may be an issue because you need to adapt to the higher tier play. It's often called the "gatekeeping tier" because you either continue to progress through, or you get knocked down to Tier 3 (correctly).

Edited by BlueDevilspawn, Yesterday, 07:13 AM.

[Void Angel]

Ttly, on 27 June 2025 - 08:31 AM, said:

It's a broken system because it has an upward trend by default you ask me, unless you're bad enough to the point that it feels almost intentional griefing/sabotaging your own team.
So yeah, it's useless.

Not any more, it doesn't. That's what the change and reset fixed. The system is zero sum by match now, so if I'm getting PSR, someone else is losing it - that fixes the upward trend that really was a problem in the original design.