213 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

I find DATA to be pretty much spot on

normally when trouble shooting you identify the problem and correct it

but we have a different situation with MWO
the patient or customer refuses to see that there is a problem
the caldron has tried just about everything but since they are at the top of the food chain most of us get no benefits out of there changes

getting rid of alpine peaks (since its a map for the few)
fixing Alpine peaks would be better but it might be to late for that

rolling back the nerfs on Clan heat sinks and the nerf of radar dep

these where changes to the base game and require players (ones that know) to re-spec there skill trees
it has a side affect of not being able to give advice to new players

[Drenzul]

Davegt27, on 13 July 2025 - 12:41 AM, said:

I find DATA to be pretty much spot on

normally when trouble shooting you identify the problem and correct it

but we have a different situation with MWO
the patient or customer refuses to see that there is a problem
the caldron has tried just about everything but since they are at the top of the food chain most of us get no benefits out of there changes

getting rid of alpine peaks (since its a map for the few)
fixing Alpine peaks would be better but it might be to late for that

rolling back the nerfs on Clan heat sinks and the nerf of radar dep

these where changes to the base game and require players (ones that know) to re-spec there skill trees
it has a side affect of not being able to give advice to new players

Nope, we all know the problem.
Its 20 year old code on a 20+ year old engine. No-one is willing to invest in that because it can't compete with modern flashier games really for the mass-market which is the only way to ensure that it actually gives us the refund on investment

Basically we are playing cos we enjoy the game as is, its on maintence mode till hopefully MWO2 comes around.

[Khosumi]

Drenzul, on 13 July 2025 - 02:52 AM, said:

Nope, we all know the problem.
Its 20 year old code on a 20+ year old engine.

i'm so tired of hearing this copeout of an argument.
Engines and code can be updated. The problem isn't the engine age, it's the halted development on it.

[VixNix]

Having anti cheat would help...

[KursedVixen]

Khosumi, on 13 July 2025 - 05:18 AM, said:

i'm so tired of hearing this copeout of an argument.
Engines and code can be updated. The problem isn't the engine age, it's the halted development on it.

isn't Mechwarrior living legends built on the same engine? it doesn't look better but i feel like it plays better.

[Khosumi]

KursedVixen, on 13 July 2025 - 06:33 AM, said:

isn't Mechwarrior living legends built on the same engine? it doesn't look better but i feel like it plays better.

Yes, it is.

with a lot more content.

Edited by Khosumi, 13 July 2025 - 07:09 AM.

[East Indy]

The player design/devs haven't done a bad job. Sure, they're working from within the same basic constraints, and share some of the limiting biases of the original devs, and I pop on to be a one-man peanut gallery every few weeks—but MWO is just naturally fading away. And still (mostly) self-sustaining after 13 years? Not bad.

Always seemed like once the open beta started, MWO was overtaken by events and momentum, and forced to change tires at 60 mph.

Between unique gameplay, customization depth, collectible longevity and volumes of lore to tie it all together, there's a vein of gold in this IP even now. All the same players from 2012, plus more, would come back and happily put up cash if they could experience an endlessly fun loop. I don't think PGI has the insight or cleverness to pull it off—but they led the way with sincerity and enthusiasm. Jordan Weisman and Co. proved that the universe can be matched to a genre successfully.

Nothing more to be done here but enjoy the twilight and look to whomever takes the baton.

[Saved By The Bell]

Today I was reading a BattleTech book, it was fight there on Solaris arena, Vindicator with PPC, missiles and lasers. How many people on earth would read this on Sunday?

Its a niche territory, so game not dying.

And may be some guys building mechs in real life, just look this:

https://x.com/Daamia...740506934022533

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 13 July 2025 - 08:05 AM.

[Khosumi]

Saved By The Bell, on 13 July 2025 - 08:04 AM, said:

Today I was reading a BattleTech book, it was fight there on Solaris arena, Vindicator with PPC, missiles and lasers. How many people on earth would read this on Sunday?

Its a niche territory, so game not dying.

https://x.com/Daamia...740506934022533

Brother, you reading up on lore has nothing to do with the game's population declining.
It is at its lowest point it has ever been, you can verify that on steamcharts.
https://steamcharts.com/app/342200#1y

The game is absolutely dying. Slowly, but it is

[KursedVixen]

East Indy, on 13 July 2025 - 07:55 AM, said:

The player design/devs haven't done a bad job. Sure, they're working from within the same basic constraints, and share some of the limiting biases of the original devs, and I pop on to be a one-man peanut gallery every few weeks—but MWO is just naturally fading away. And still (mostly) self-sustaining after 13 years? Not bad.

Always seemed like once the open beta started, MWO was overtaken by events and momentum, and forced to change tires at 60 mph.

Between unique gameplay, customization depth, collectible longevity and volumes of lore to tie it all together, there's a vein of gold in this IP even now. All the same players from 2012, plus more, would come back and happily put up cash if they could experience an endlessly fun loop. I don't think PGI has the insight or cleverness to pull it off—but they led the way with sincerity and enthusiasm. Jordan Weisman and Co. proved that the universe can be matched to a genre successfully.

Nothing more to be done here but enjoy the twilight and look to whomever takes the baton.

"Haven't done a bad job." *points to Mechwarrior Living Legends*

This game isn't even mechwarrior anymore there are very few ties to battletech aside from designs and weapons for example: The duelist breaks the rules of Heavy gauss rifles you cannot mount them in arms, the Sunspider is a totally made up omnimech for what purpose? The Roughneck is also a non-cannon design, though loosely based on lore. Beam lasers, they had to make up a weapon for clans because they implimented X-pulse incorrectly as rapid fire pulse instead of the IS attempt to make Clan pulse lasers. they couldn't even leave Hyper gauss implimented correctly...


The game is dieing because it's old and they are running out of ideas so they have to break lore to continue and despite being as old as it is it's still a buggy mess sometimes with people crashing left and right at random times...

Edited by KursedVixen, 13 July 2025 - 08:30 AM.

[Khosumi]

KursedVixen, on 13 July 2025 - 08:23 AM, said:

"Haven't done a bad job." *points to Mechwarrior Living Legends*

This game isn't even mechwarrior anymore there are very few ties to battletech aside from designs and weapons for example: The duelist breaks the rules of Heavy gauss rifles you cannot mount them in arms, the Sunspider is a totally made up omnimech for what purpose? The Roughneck is also a non-cannon design, though loosely based on lore. Beam lasers, they had to make up a weapon for clans because they implimented X-pulse incorrectly as rapid fire pulse instead of the IS attempt to make Clan pulse lasers. they couldn't even leave Hyper gauss implimented correctly...


The game is dieing because it's old and they are running out of ideas so they have to break lore to continue and despite being as old as it is it's still a buggy mess sometimes with people crashing left and right at random times...

The game is indeed in a pretty bad state.

I can appreciate optimism, but not blind faith. The numbers are verifiable. They're not good.

The aged engine will continue to be a source of many problems until something is done about it. Claims that it can't be updated anymore are simply ignorant.

The game needs overhauls. reworked graphics, fix the sound cutting out all the time in big fights, fix the abysmal terrain hitboxes, fix the UI freezing when you change armor values.

The quality of matches have gone severely downhill over time, a large chunk of the better players have left.

Edited by Khosumi, 13 July 2025 - 08:45 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

GuardDogg, on 12 July 2025 - 04:37 PM, said:

MWO does not have to die. Their is older games that been fixed, adjusted to today computers. Stupid enough, people still play countrer-strike. Like wtf? Look at DCS, way older than MWO and look at it today. Kicking &#$* in so many ways.

Those games also have much larger followings than mechwarrior and less problematic designs. Upgrading the engine/graphics won't fix the games issues because the game has always had foundational issues. Keeping in mind Counterstrike literally just migrated to a new engine/game because they've had nothing but player population growth since pretty much skins debuted whereas MWO has been bleeding players since steam launch.

[Khosumi]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 July 2025 - 08:55 AM, said:

Those games also have much larger followings than mechwarrior and less problematic designs. Upgrading the engine/graphics won't fix the games issues because the game has always had foundational issues.

In what world does updating and fixing issues not solve foundational issues? "We shouldn't bother doing the things that fixes the things because it won't fixes the things".

The entire reason why the game is in this state is BECAUSE of a lack of updates and fixes.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

KursedVixen, on 13 July 2025 - 08:23 AM, said:

This game isn't even mechwarrior anymore there are very few ties to battletech aside from designs and weapons for example: The duelist breaks the rules of Heavy gauss rifles you cannot mount them in arms, the Sunspider is a totally made up omnimech for what purpose?

MW4 was made by FASA and had similar things. I don't understand what it is about the BT universe where if certain things aren't exact copies of TT they aren't "true" to the game. It's like saying Baldur's Gate 3 isn't a D&D game because fireball doesn't do 8d6 or is given to extra classes or something, it's such a stupid argument.

Khosumi, on 13 July 2025 - 08:57 AM, said:

In what world does updating and fixing issues not solve foundational issues? "We shouldn't bother doing the things that fixes the things because it won't fixes the things".

The entire reason why the game is in this state is BECAUSE of a lack of updates and fixes.

My brother in christ, foundational issues like the monetization scheme and the fact we had mechs added for nostalgia bait with no idea of what role they should have in the game or whether they were competing for roles in the first place have nothing to do with engine upgrades. They also aren't easy fixes. There are numerous issues with the game that would be better off them hitting the reset button on because it's easier to do than either doing a migration (remember how the skill maze dropped? that's an example of a migration gone wrong) especially when people feel entitled to content they purchased.

I don't know if you know, but they constant mech packs and even things like skill maze and the civil war tech update didn't fix the bleeding, so what makes you think it will now all the sudden. The game has larger issues than "lack of content".

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 13 July 2025 - 09:02 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 July 2025 - 09:01 AM, said:

MW4 was made by FASA and had similar things. I don't understand what it is about the BT universe where if certain things aren't exact copies of TT they aren't "true" to the game. It's like saying Baldur's Gate 3 isn't a D&D game because fireball doesn't do 8d6 or is given to extra classes or something, it's such a stupid argument.


My brother in christ, foundational issues like the monetization scheme and the fact we had mechs added for nostalgia bait with no idea of what role they should have in the game or whether they were competing for roles in the first place have nothing to do with engine upgrades. They also aren't easy fixes. There are numerous issues with the game that would be better off them hitting the reset button on because it's easier to do than either doing a migration (remember how the skill maze dropped? that's an example of a migration gone wrong) especially when people feel entitled to content they purchased.

i'd be okay with the roughneck beam laser and Sunspider if the duelist didn't outright break the heavy gauss rule.

if the inner sphere can break the rules of mech building by putting heavy gauss in arms why do clans have to stick to building rules of Omnis????

Edited by KursedVixen, 13 July 2025 - 09:03 AM.

[Khosumi]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 July 2025 - 09:01 AM, said:

My brother in christ, foundational issues like the monetization scheme and the fact we had mechs added for nostalgia bait with no idea of what role they should have in the game or whether they were competing for roles in the first place have nothing to do with engine upgrades. They also aren't easy fixes. There are numerous issues with the game that would be better off them hitting the reset button on because it's easier to do than either doing a migration (remember how the skill maze dropped? that's an example of a migration gone wrong) especially when people feel entitled to content they purchased.

The reworked skill trees have always been a disaster since the original mastery system. PGI has consistently dropped the ball on everything that made the game fun, and then refused to keep the engine modern.

Engine upgrades and fixes is how you solve the underlaying issues of why people are leaving.

Monetization is what it is now because they are on life support, the game is EOL. A dying game always starts pumping out DLC such as all the mech packs to keep the money flowing, but nothing more.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khosumi, on 13 July 2025 - 09:05 AM, said:

Engine upgrades and fixes is how you solve the underlaying issues of why people are leaving.

Monetization is what it is now because they are on life support, the game is EOL. A dying game always starts pumping out DLC such as all the mech packs to keep the money flowing, but nothing more.

Monetization in this game has been the same for literally the past decade going back to the success of the Phoenix/Clans packs. The engine is definitely not why people leave, but it's always hilarious hearing people use this argument.

[Khosumi]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 13 July 2025 - 09:09 AM, said:

Monetization in this game has been the same for literally the past decade going back to the success of the Phoenix/Clans packs. The engine is definitely not why people leave, but it's always hilarious hearing people use this argument.

Tell me, when was the last major update? Something that truly shook the game up?

Have you seen the state of faction play?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khosumi, on 13 July 2025 - 09:16 AM, said:

Tell me, when was the last major update? Something that truly shook the game up?

There's been plenty that shook the game up, but not in a good way and that's part of the problem (Clans, 12v12, skill maze, etc). As for faction play, it's funny you bring it up because the promise of it and implementation have been a thorn in MWO's side since the beginning. It was and still is bad and I don't understand why people bother with it other than for the occasional "haha"

[Khosumi]

People enjoyed FP because the team combat was fantastic. If you had joined with a decent unit, which there were plenty back then, the fights were a lot of fun, the cooperation was off the charts. Getting trophies and rewards for doing them was also a nice part of it, but that's also removed.

That's long since gone. Those players are gone.

It's not just the engine, or the monetization, or any singular root reason. It's all a combination of them. They all detract from different crowds. Underlaying engine issues such as the horrific terrain hitboxes are a genuine detriment to the game, and that has never and will never be fixed.