32 replies to this topic

[martian]

Ttly, on 25 July 2025 - 06:45 PM, said:

PSR should just be replaced with power rating on your build+chassis.

You are a decade too late.

[AcesHigh]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 25 July 2025 - 05:24 PM, said:

I'm questioning the person because MWO is setup so that people can easily shoot themselves in the foot. People regularly post in these forums wondering why they can't rank up when they are running some NARC/AMS setup with only 3 ML for firepower or something like that.

Irony that NARC/AMS are crazy powerful and have massive effect on the battlefield in comparison to the basic LRM/ATM no-skill-spam they facilitate and frustrate respectively.

This doesn't change the fact that arguing the person instead of arguing the argument is not productive. Do try to fix that. It's you shooting yourself in the foot when ya do it.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 25 July 2025 - 05:24 PM, said:

So that's really the question, is your problem about PSR (because lights can PSR up just fine) or that lights are unbalanced as a whole (which has a better argument for).

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

• The majority of light chassis seem to be actively punished for laying into their role.
  
• Everyone is punished by queue-time with lights being punished for being lights.

Sub 1a: What was that point about the capture spider? Yeah, it's pilots are actively punished for embracing the role and winning by doing so. There are a multitude of other examples too.

Sub 2a: Enjoy longer wait times because the foundational metrics try to force people to volunteer for a punished weight class. More assaults in alpha lance required!

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

...All mechs' role is to damage and ideally kill other mechs.

Lights do it by leveraging their mobility to pick on isolated mechs, reposition quickly for advantageous shots and to lower risk, do damage early and often, and chase down and finish off runners. Objectives can be important depending on mode but dead mechs don't cap.

[AcesHigh]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 26 July 2025 - 08:35 AM, said:

...All mechs' role is to damage and ideally kill other mechs.

Lights do it by leveraging their mobility to pick on isolated mechs, reposition quickly for advantageous shots and to lower risk, do damage early and often, and chase down and finish off runners. Objectives can be important depending on mode but dead mechs don't cap.

Yeah but a light who takes out an assault with 100 damage pinpoint to the ******** is rewarded less(likely punished) than a missileboat taking out the same assault with 20 tonnes of sandblaster damage. See the problem?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 07:10 AM, said:

Irony that NARC/AMS are crazy powerful and have massive effect on the battlefield in comparison to the basic LRM/ATM no-skill-spam they facilitate and frustrate respectively.

NARC requires your team have LRMs to be useful, which you have zero guarantees. It is a bit broken when things land your way but is very inconsistent if you don't have firepower with it. This is why the best NARC mech is probably the Jenner IIC. Same thing applies to AMS, it is situational.

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 07:10 AM, said:

The majority of light chassis seem to be actively punished for laying into their role.

Let me stop you right there, what exactly do you think their role is? If you think they are a non-combatant role mainly then you've already dug yourself into the wrong hole. They aren't dedicated scouts, EVERYONE can and should scout by opening their eyeballs which is more important than radar since radar is LoS based. They aren't dedicated capbots (well most of the time), if you aren't contributing to fights, your team is effectively fighting 7v8. Lights have speed which means you have the benefit of repositioning and taking off-angles much easier to fight, especially if you have a battle buddy to help you cleanup isolated players.

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 07:10 AM, said:

This doesn't change the fact that arguing the person instead of arguing the argument is not productive.

It is when we are talking about personal experiences and how they can color your opinions on things (especially on what's "effective"). So please stop acting like an authority on arguments.

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 09:02 AM, said:

Yeah but a light who takes out an assault with 100 damage pinpoint to the ******** is rewarded less(likely punished) than a missileboat taking out the same assault with 20 tonnes of sandblaster damage. See the problem?

How do you quantify the differences in a scoring system? Legitimately? PSR is flawed, but the solution isn't to double down and go further, it's a trap. Ultimately W/L would be a better MMR, but this discussion is moot because it's not getting changed so I'm not exactly sure what you're hoping will happen.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, Yesterday, 09:29 AM.

[CFC Conky]

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 07:10 AM, said:

...

• The majority of light chassis seem to be actively punished for laying into their role.
  
• Everyone is punished by queue-time with lights being punished for being lights.

...

I don't know what to say man, you either enjoy playing light mechs or you don't. If that's the only weight-class you drive then you will get slower progress up the PSR ladder in QP, and sometimes longer wait times, no way around that in a game that won't be patched to fix these issues.

In November 2024 I ran nothing but light mechs, 119 drops. My stats tanked (not that they were particularly good to begin with), but I was doing much better at towards the end on the month compared to the beginning and still ended up with positive K/D and W/L ratios . Cue times varied but were never more than a couple of minutes.

If you get really good at running lights and are still stuck in a lower tier, you'll do even better so enjoy the ride if you can.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, Yesterday, 10:12 AM.

[AcesHigh]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 26 July 2025 - 09:26 AM, said:

NARC requires your team have LRMs to be useful, which you have zero guarantees. It is a bit broken when things land your way but is very inconsistent if you don't have firepower with it. This is why the best NARC mech is probably the Jenner IIC. Same thing applies to AMS, it is situational.

narc also useful purely for constant visibility of a target.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 26 July 2025 - 09:26 AM, said:

Let me stop you right there, what exactly do you think their role is? If you think they are a non-combatant role mainly then you've already dug yourself into the wrong hole....

Your argument is only valid in skirmish mode. See above meme re: "That just sounds like skirmish with extra steps" and mecha like the capture spider actively punishing people following their role to "win"

Quicksilver Aberration, on 26 July 2025 - 09:26 AM, said:

It is when we are talking about personal experiences and how they can color your opinions on things (especially on what's "effective"). So please stop acting like an authority on arguments.

This is an OBJECTIVE not SUBJECTIVE thing. There are OBJECTIVE numbers associated. Basic comprehension of logic isn't too hard. Try it some time. You are actively shooting yourself in the foot and blaming the gun for not being idiot-proof right now.

Quicksilver Aberration, on 26 July 2025 - 09:26 AM, said:

How do you quantify the differences in a scoring system? Legitimately? PSR is flawed, but the solution isn't to double down and go further, it's a trap. Ultimately W/L would be a better MMR, but this discussion is moot because it's not getting changed so I'm not exactly sure what you're hoping will happen.

If the discussion is moot, you should quit typing.

I disagree though, as above for the problems. The CONSTRUCTIVE thing would be to discuss legitimate OBJECTIVE problems and try to put forward valid solutions. W/L? Valid. Adjusting the scale of how damage is calculated? Also valid. Arguing about people instead of the issues? NOT valid. See the difference? Oh, wait, you're supposed to stop typing now.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 10:14 AM, said:

narc also useful purely for constant visibility of a target.

Sure, but it's not worth the loss firepower in 90-95% of cases.

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 10:14 AM, said:

The CONSTRUCTIVE thing would be to discuss legitimate OBJECTIVE problems and try to put forward valid solutions.

Constructive implies it's likely to change, it isn't. PSR has long been complained about (since we had ELO back in the day), we were lucky we got the change that made PSR not an XP bar but this late in the stage of the game, with MW5 still the flagship and PGI having reduced staffing by a significant margin less than a year ago I don't see another change happening (I also think it would require an engineer, which MWO isn't getting barring outages).

If you want to theorycraft, that's another story, but rarely is that the case with most of these threads.

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 10:14 AM, said:

Your argument is only valid in skirmish mode. See above meme re: "That just sounds like skirmish with extra steps" and mecha like the capture spider actively punishing people following their role to "win"

No it's valid in No Respawn game modes, whether you want to color them as "skirmish with extra steps" or not is irrelevant because they do NOT play the exact same (conquest in particular). Objectives that don't incentivize the core attraction of this game (combat) are bad objectives when the game is no respawn. QP being no respawn also isn't going to change this late in the game.

Cap spiders really shouldn't exist but is unfortunately a case of PGI's limitations actively handicapping change (PGI has only ever added hardpoints to a mech once, and that was purely because it had them modelled and PGI got gun shy before its release for some reason). They do see use on occasion in comp, but it's not really a role that should be encouraged and is definitely more an exception rather than the rule for light mechs.

I'd love to see that mech just get even more giga-quirks and cap accel quirks go away especially since some mechs like the LCT-3V get the best of both worlds.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, Yesterday, 10:40 AM.

[GreyNovember]

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 09:02 AM, said:

Yeah but a light who takes out an assault with 100 damage pinpoint to the ******** is rewarded less(likely punished) than a missileboat taking out the same assault with 20 tonnes of sandblaster damage. See the problem?

The problem is "An effecient kill" is valued less than "Vomiting damage", yeah?

And it's a problem because "Skill Gain" is a positive thing that should be strived for, as a reward?

Do I have the gist of your problem down? Because we can start by breaking down the assumptions bit by bit.

[BlueDevilspawn]

GreyNovember, on 26 July 2025 - 12:15 PM, said:

The problem is "An effecient kill" is valued less than "Vomiting damage", yeah?

And it's a problem because "Skill Gain" is a positive thing that should be strived for, as a reward?

Do I have the gist of your problem down? Because we can start by breaking down the assumptions bit by bit.

Let me correct something there. Solo Kill and KMDD are worth more matchscore than simply kills. A solo kill is a kill in which you did the most damage and a Kmdd is a dead mech that you didn’t kill but to which you did the most damage. So, an efficient kill in which you solely drilled through the CT and killed the mech is still rewarded. Merely “securing kills” is less rewarded.

[BlueDevilspawn]

As for the previous topics, all I can add is that proper use of speed/positioning, quick peeks, smaller hitboxes emphasizes the strength of lights. If you overexpose or try to tank an assault mech or re-peek the same angle when a target is already alerted or something along those lines then you’re not playing a light to its strengths.

I have no issues doing top damage/kills/matchscore because I play to lights’ strengths. Furthermore, by doing hit and run, taking cover, being first in a position, etc you’re activating multiple matchscore “kickers” that bigger mechs have a tougher chance of activating.

TLDR - properly played lights are perfectly capable of dealing top damage as well as having top matchscore.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

AcesHigh, on 26 July 2025 - 09:02 AM, said:

Yeah but a light who takes out an assault with 100 damage pinpoint to the ******** is rewarded less(likely punished) than a missileboat taking out the same assault with 20 tonnes of sandblaster damage. See the problem?

Efficient quick backstabs kind of rob you of damage farm, though it doesn't seem to slow players like Snek in his Jenner down.

[Meep Meep]

The op hasn't played since 2018 or is currently using an alt. Either way still need to see the typical lights and loadouts to even start to make a judgement. Maintaining full bar t1 in just light play is super easy just depends on what you run.