176 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Guys... you do NOT want to ditch the tiers. Matches are odd because people are adjusting to the tactical situation - and as is often the case, they may do so... poorly. If we did go to 8v8 long-term, equilibrium would return and you'd be able to predict matches better again.

[Void Angel]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 08 August 2025 - 08:46 PM, said:

Fafnir is not my cup of tea. I have a Scorch but I find the MAD3R has been doing okay. I do NOT want to be slow right now. SHD2K is very touch and go, gets melted fast if I am not mega careful. TTKs feel lower. Everything in general feels pulled to extremes. PXH7S might do okay. Haven't tried in 8v8 yet. Hellslinger was not fun the first couple times.

Well, getting melted if you're not careful is typical of Mediums, 12v12 or 8v8. =) But as long as it's working, keep using it! The reason I suggested the Fafnir is that it's a brutal close-range machine that can deal with other close-range 'mechs - notice that the two top performers on the other team in your screenshot were Atlases. That's going to be a theme.

Likely your matches feel extreme because enemy 'mechs are willing to actually chase and fight you, which is often not the case in 12v12. One of the main changes in player behavior that I noticed when 12v12 was implemented was a large increase in passive play and hiding - players were exhibiting conditioned timidity because there were suddenly half again more guns available to shoot at them when they tried to trade. The opposite is going to start happening now, with players gradually becoming more daring (and gravitating toward certain 'mechs whose durability quirks were increased to allow them to survive 12v12 - poster 'mech for that is the Atlas.)

[Inky91]

8v8 wouldn't be bad, if it wasen't for soup queue. . . But as things are, 8v8 just means that all the problems for solo players (tier 1) in soup queue are getting amplified.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Void Angel, on 09 August 2025 - 07:30 AM, said:

Well, getting melted if you're not careful is typical of Mediums, 12v12 or 8v8. =) But as long as it's working, keep using it! The reason I suggested the Fafnir is that it's a brutal close-range machine that can deal with other close-range 'mechs - notice that the two top performers on the other team in your screenshot were Atlases. That's going to be a theme.

Likely your matches feel extreme because enemy 'mechs are willing to actually chase and fight you, which is often not the case in 12v12. One of the main changes in player behavior that I noticed when 12v12 was implemented was a large increase in passive play and hiding - players were exhibiting conditioned timidity because there were suddenly half again more guns available to shoot at them when they tried to trade. The opposite is going to start happening now, with players gradually becoming more daring (and gravitating toward certain 'mechs whose durability quirks were increased to allow them to survive 12v12 - poster 'mech for that is the Atlas.)

The reason that match was a loss was because someone did not want to wait and bottle the Atlas in the basement and pick at him and his friend.

(Reasoning given: he was getting bored.)

Would have been a win otherwise.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 09 August 2025 - 08:24 AM.

[Lollerisms]

Strelok7, on 08 August 2025 - 07:37 PM, said:

Yes - widen the Tier brackets!
If Devs feel spunky - add extra ghost heat to Tier 1 and 2. Problem solved!

We'll drive the "Fear of Losing" and "Meta Obsessions" right out of Tier1s & 2s. We'll turn them into Real Mech Warriors!

If you want to get matched against world champions that's your prerogative, but I don't think you'll like it. Also, how is increased ghost heat supposed to limit me? The vast majority of builds are HSL limited rather than just tanking the GH.

[Void Angel]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 09 August 2025 - 08:21 AM, said:

The reason that match was a loss was because someone did not want to wait and bottle the Atlas in the basement and pick at him and his friend.

(Reasoning given: he was getting bored.)

Would have been a win otherwise.

That's frustrating - I honestly didn't notice who won or lost. The Atlas was stupid to go into the basement anyway - but he can get away with it because his durability is quirked for 12v12.

Lollerisms, on 09 August 2025 - 08:22 AM, said:

If you want to get matched against world champions that's your prerogative, but I don't think you'll like it. Also, how is increased ghost heat supposed to limit me? The vast majority of builds are HSL limited rather than just tanking the GH.

Oh, don't dignify that guy with a response. =[

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

Void Angel, on 09 August 2025 - 08:28 AM, said:

That's frustrating - I honestly didn't notice who won or lost. The Atlas was stupid to go into the basement anyway - but he can get away with it because his durability is quirked for 12v12.



Oh, don't dignify that guy with a response. =[

The match had gone south for his team.

He went down there, pretty much daring us to come down and fight and teammates ignored my warning to not do so despite knowing he was a brawl Atlas. A brawl Atlas with more armor and structure than God and a dakka SNS versus ERLL Jester and a bored SNV-A rushing in. I got crossed up at a doorway when I realized there was no stopping the basement rush.

It was basically a throw. We could have gone timer, picked at them, you name it. But the timer in 8v8 is a LOT longer. Patience stalemates get even more tiresome.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 09 August 2025 - 08:55 AM.

[CwStrife]

This is complete crap. I don't know who thought that taking this game back to 2013 was a good idea.

If the queue times are taking too long i'm sure there is a way to program it to allow X number of a lower tier into each team to try and speed it up or higher tiers in a lower tier game. This is a potential solution on 12v12 while maintaining balance and queue times.

Another option would be to open the tier system up on 12v12 and just see how it rolls. No worse than how abysmal 8v8 has been for a day.

It seems like either players who haven't played in a long time are active or the tier system has been widened on 8v8 by itself. ALOT of assaults with LRM's, poor playstyle, and absolutely detrimental to the team. Having a couple bad players on your team costs you much more dearly then in 12v12 where there is a good chance for a rebound potentially.

I've argued for a long time the big problem alot of problem say is they die too quick. Weapons have continually gotten more powerful while armor has remained stagnant in the game. Increasing armor values across the board in QP somewhere between 25-50% could make the game more fun and also offset alot of quirks. For example I run the bandit, it has heat dissipation problems. Right now I can run up to another mech and generally destroy it before i'll overheat, might have to pop a coolshot. Add more armor in and that assault I could take out now has the advantage where i'm going to have to wait to cooldown and they could continue to pounce on me.

It just seems like the decisions being made aren't thought out as well as they should be. The intention is good, but there are much better ways to resolve the issue within the game currently. It would be nice to see PGI and the cauldron much more open with players to resolve these issues and keep the playerbase alive and active instead of grenading it to the point of no return.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

CwStrife, on 09 August 2025 - 09:21 AM, said:

ALOT of assaults with LRM's, poor playstyle, and absolutely detrimental to the team.

Giving ****** players more armor isn't going to somehow make them more useful, it just pushes the game more towards DPS oriented builds even further. Regardless of how "hot" the broken Bandit (which is getting nerfed for a reason) is, it is cooler for the damage compared to most laser vomit mechs and increasing TTK just reinforces that.

[1453 R]

I do find it kinda bitterly hilarious that 8v8 drops, players start playing super aggressively and doing what they should've been doing for twelve years now, and errybuddy's all "OMG PEOPLE ACTUALLY RUN AT ME AND ATTACK ME AND I DIE I HATE IT GIMME BACK MY 600 TONS OF ABLATIVE TEAM-SHAPED ARMOR AND GAMES THAT LET ME SIT IN THE BACK WITH AN LRM800 BANE AND ACCOMPLISH NOTHING ALL GAME WHILE STILL FEELING GOOD ABOUT IT"

Man. Man. A more ringing condemnation of Chickenwinging, I do not think I have ever seen.

[MP Stiletto]

Relatively newer player in the grand scheme of things ( playing since Feb 2022, I think), so well after when 8v8 was the norm. Not thrilled with the experience. Games generally seem to get lopsided faster, so games go faster, but the time between matches isn't all that different. I keep ending up in matches where one side gets a big edge, and the last enemy mech is a light stealth ECM who then runs off to a remote section of the map and hides, which isn't fun for anyone.

[CallMeCombine]

Had a 8 paragraph post drawn up. decided it wasn't worth it, here are the main points.

3000 hour top 100 light mech pilot who regularly hemorrhages tiers because i leave foe a year at a time.

Removing chaos from the game makes the match pre-decided with who takes the least fun mechanically consistent builds.

Matches are won and lost in the mech bay if chaos is not factored in. this game is extraordinarily low skill.

8v8 is a terrible decision, as it has been every time it was posited hitherto.

I have noticed no difference in queue time as a light/medium mech pilot.

No reason to take an engine larger than 35kmph if the rest of my mouth breathing assault team is doing the same thing.

If i go for a flank with a second that's 1/4 of the team gone from the frontline.

1453 R makes some blanket statements and I have qualms with that they're saying, but i'm not sure if they are misconceptions, miscommunication, or lack of experience. regardless its a convo i'd like to have, but not here.

I'd love to talk about it more, i'm into gamedev and the like so this is a important talking point for me.

CallMeCombine on discord

[NeoLuna22]

8v8 sucks, it makes que times marginally better for assault players at the expense of literally everything else. If PGI wants poeple to play less assault mechs to balance out the tonnage pool, they need to make it possible to earn good amounts of cbills and progress in rank based on things other than just doing as much raw damage as possible.

[CwStrife]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 09 August 2025 - 09:54 AM, said:

Giving ****** players more armor isn't going to somehow make them more useful, it just pushes the game more towards DPS oriented builds even further. Regardless of how "hot" the broken Bandit (which is getting nerfed for a reason) is, it is cooler for the damage compared to most laser vomit mechs and increasing TTK just reinforces that.

The bandit has nothing to do with why u said what ive said. This is a general observation, just look at the feedback from the regular players, its not good. More armor will 100% but the stubborn ones refuse to try anything logical. We got 8v8 with no tiers could have just done it with 12v12. This temporary change is bad and possibly detract from the playerbase more.

[Hat]

CallMeCombine, on 09 August 2025 - 01:14 PM, said:

Had a 8 paragraph post drawn up. decided it wasn't worth it, here are the main points.

3000 hour top 100 light mech pilot who regularly hemorrhages tiers because i leave foe a year at a time.

Removing chaos from the game makes the match pre-decided with who takes the least fun mechanically consistent builds.

Matches are won and lost in the mech bay if chaos is not factored in. this game is extraordinarily low skill.

8v8 is a terrible decision, as it has been every time it was posited hitherto.

I have noticed no difference in queue time as a light/medium mech pilot.

No reason to take an engine larger than 35kmph if the rest of my mouth breathing assault team is doing the same thing.

If i go for a flank with a second that's 1/4 of the team gone from the frontline.

1453 R makes some blanket statements and I have qualms with that they're saying, but i'm not sure if they are misconceptions, miscommunication, or lack of experience. regardless its a convo i'd like to have, but not here.

I'd love to talk about it more, i'm into gamedev and the like so this is a important talking point for me.

CallMeCombine on discord

"Top 100 Light Pilot"

[AnUndeadMonkey]

8v8 is trash.... just open up the pointless ranking system. delete skirmish and bring back escort. game is dead. why make a change to make it worse. keep groups with groups and solo with solo.

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

I haven't seen 1453R or Void in game once since this started.

That honestly comes across weird. I have been dropping pretty frequently. Not much else to do, don't think it's a good idea to go play TT with other folks when I'm running a fever so 8v8 all night it is.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 09 August 2025 - 04:44 PM.

[McLaine]

I can take it or leave it. Not much difference in match quality, not much difference in search times.

It doesn't really solve any problems IMO.

[Void Angel]

Quicksilver Aberration, on 09 August 2025 - 09:54 AM, said:

Giving ****** players more armor isn't going to somehow make them more useful, it just pushes the game more towards DPS oriented builds even further. Regardless of how "hot" the broken Bandit (which is getting nerfed for a reason) is, it is cooler for the damage compared to most laser vomit mechs and increasing TTK just reinforces that.

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 09 August 2025 - 03:32 PM, said:

I haven't seen 1453R or Void in game once since this started.

That honestly comes across weird. I have been dropping pretty frequently. Not much else to do, don't think it's a good idea to go play TT with other folks when I'm running a fever so 8v8 all night it is.

I've been here! Just got back from traveling for work, so my playing hours might be different.

Also, drink lots of water and get sleep! Feel better!

[1453 R]

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 09 August 2025 - 03:32 PM, said:

I haven't seen 1453R or Void in game once since this started.

That honestly comes across weird. I have been dropping pretty frequently. Not much else to do, don't think it's a good idea to go play TT with other folks when I'm running a fever so 8v8 all night it is.

I was in game for a decent chunk yesterday, but I'm also a low-tier shitqueen nobody ever sees because I'm down in the chum bucket. I've played a few today, but unfortunately both today and yesterday I spent most of my time in the late evenings and nighttime working on a prior commitment. I've run probably close to a dozen or so matches here and there. Not a huge amount, but considering I finished out my Phase 1 baggies I'm a little burnt on MWO in general and slowing down a bit before the second-phase Baggie grind.

I can see I am seeing the same swift snowballing people are carping and kvetching and complaining about in the matches I play. Stuff goes lopsided much more quickly than in a typical 12v12 Chicken Wing match. Issue: I see no trouble with this. The abrupt swings don't bother me much at all, it's simply how MWO is and always has been. I find myself quite enjoying the much more aggressive and movement-oriented games that 8v8 is throwing out. I've lost badly sometimes because I haven't fully grokked the changes in the tactical situation yet myself, but in short: yes, I have played the 8v8 games, and yes, I see the "problems" everyone else is complaining about, but no, I disagree with the idea that they're problems.