236 replies to this topic

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[EthanisAwsome]

Honestly not the biggest fan on the 8V8 the maps generally are to large and brawling is still not much of an option but that is due to the way the game has been metaed for high pin point damage. 8v8 is a neutral turn around for brawling while yes overall there are less mechs to shoot you there are also less enemy mechs blocking team mates trying to shoot you. I haven't seen any benifit to the 8V8 in respec to getting a game or load time the only thing I have noticed play time is shorter per match and balling up is the preferred tactic so match time from my experience is down.

I personaly will be waiting for this 8V8 experiment to be over before I play again, if you don't like something a company is doing 2 options either stop using it or stop paying for it and maybe the company will listen.

[CFC Conky]

In the time I've been playing MWO, there have been changes made that many players said would kill the game. When they de-synced the engines there was a hue and cry. When they nurfed the Clan SPL's, it was supposed to be the end of the game. When Clan double heat sinks were nerfed it was 'game over man, game over!'.

None of this happened. In time, some adjustments were made and everyone adapted. I haven't played 8v8 yet, and while I have no reason not to believe it sucks, I also don't think it will kill the game, PGI will adjust the game, the meta will shift (again), and in the end everyone will roll the changes.

The game might also just revert back to 12v12, which is fine too.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 13 August 2025 - 06:18 PM.

[Ballistic Panicmode]

Tiy0s, on 12 August 2025 - 08:49 AM, said:

I've been seeing a lot of feedback on 8v8 in both discord and the forums, I'm keeping track of it all.

During the course of this event, I've been making subtle changes to the matchmaker and keeping an eye on match speeds, search times, match quality, etc. When this 8v8 is over, I'll be making a more proper post with all of my findings, thoughts, and what I think the future steps will be. This is not just a test of search times, this is me testing every aspect of the matchmaker I can(I'm not an engineer, I can only change the dials that people before me have made) to see what the most optimal setup is during the parts of the year where we see lower player activity.

The only thing that's really set in stone to stay is group and solo queues staying merged in "soup" queue. However, even the size of groups can be changed if that's what is needed.

Keep the feedback coming, I'm reading it all. Perhaps this test is was a little longer than it should have been and future tests will be much shorter in time frame. But I'm trying to learn everything I can for future implementations of whatever I need to do to keep MWO running as well as it can.

I can't imagine it's easy to make those choices. It seems to me the best way forward is to drop the tier system, track players' average match score on a per-chassis basis and use that number to balance the teams. That's assuming 1) that it could be done within PGI's manpower budget and 2) that average match score is a good measure of player performance.

Be careful with making 8v8 permanent though. the sudden spike in players leaving over it may hasten the decline of population, compared to the slow trickle over Queue times.

[Saved By The Bell]

In my opinion 8x8 just do things even worse.

Just watched this, want to hear red team opinion:
https://ibb.co/pjhkJYSw

[Ballistic Panicmode]

Saved By The Bell, on 14 August 2025 - 01:14 PM, said:

In my opinion 8x8 just do things even worse.

Just watched this, want to hear red team opinion:
https://ibb.co/pjhkJYSw

Those first 3 names on the blue team are well known. The rest, not so much.

Even in 12 v 12, why do these two teams end up facing each other? 3 people on the red team had double digit damage, one of them in an assault mech.

[Void Angel]

Ballistic Panicmode, on 14 August 2025 - 02:50 PM, said:

Even in 12 v 12, why do these two teams end up facing each other? 3 people on the red team had double digit damage, one of them in an assault mech.

Because there are not enough players at all levels to make enough Tiers to separate them. Ideally, all the people like whoever the known players on blue team were (I haven't looked) would be in their own Tier, and the game would be able to produce matches within a single Tier at all levels. Unfortunately, there's not enough players, so people kind of pile up a the top - this is why Tier 3 is such a shock when players first get there.

[Carl Avery in casual attire]

Void Angel, on 14 August 2025 - 07:01 PM, said:

Because there are not enough players at all levels to make enough Tiers to separate them.

This is true, but better matchmaking could do a better job of putting the "Tier 0" players on opposite sides.

Too few players to completely separate tiers is an unavoidable problem. The game incorrectly considering all T1 players as equal is not an unavoidable problem.

The game desperately needs a Tier 0. Even though they have to be in the same matches as T1s and T2s, at least having them correctly recognized as higher-threat than T1s would allow them to be better distributed between the teams.

[Void Angel]

Carl Avery in casual attire, on 14 August 2025 - 07:35 PM, said:

This is true, but better matchmaking could do a better job of putting the "Tier 0" players on opposite sides.

Too few players to completely separate tiers is an unavoidable problem. The game incorrectly considering all T1 players as equal is not an unavoidable problem.

The game desperately needs a Tier 0. Even though they have to be in the same matches as T1s and T2s, at least having them correctly recognized as higher-threat than T1s would allow them to be better distributed between the teams.

Well, that is a decent solution if they've got the resources allocated to implement it - but it doesn't require a Tier 0. It just requires creating another layer that activates after the members of a match are determined, to sort players by their PSR numbers and then assign them to alternating teams. But, you'd have to do some work for groups, and possibly rework how the matchmaker works at base in order to avoid inefficiencies in your server... plus any debugging, and administrative controls, and debugging that...

Unfortunately, there aren't any software engineers available, so it may well not be possible to add that much complexity to the matchmaker code.

[Carl Avery in casual attire]

Void Angel, on 14 August 2025 - 08:00 PM, said:

Unfortunately, there aren't any software engineers available, so it may well not be possible to add that much complexity to the matchmaker code.

If nothing else, they could revert to the old 2013-era "averaged Elos" system. They've already got the code for it. It was bad, but it was less bad than the current "all T1 are equal" system.

[Void Angel]

I don't know about that... and in any case they may actually not still have that code.

[Adarven]

To me, 8v8 feels like an unorganized competitive mode. When we play 8v8 in a championship with rules (such as limitations on the number of assault mechs, chassis, and total tonnage), the teams feel much more balanced. This also forces you to use different builds than in 12v12 matches.
In quickplay, however, the experience feels less rewarding. The potential damage, kill counts, and even mech leveling are all lower. The responsibility of each player is much higher in an 8v8 game. Losing just one or two mechs can end the match, and the "deathball" effect is stronger.
While the mode could be fun with more players using microphones, one or two bad players (like "rotato potato" or "suiciders") can easily ruin the game for everyone else. I've adapted by using more mobile mechs with medium to short-range bracket. Slower mechs are less viable because they can be easily flanked by light mechs (and map size feels more impactful than in 12v12). Ultimately, the matches feel more stressful.
This is just my feedback and my two cents on the matter. I am not complainingm, I've adapted, but I wanted to share my perspective.

[Yllirion]

So, what is 8v8 mode?

• One of your eight is a DC (a disconnect) on your team.
  
• A couple of light mechs sprint to the edge of the map and somehow die within the first minute.
  
• A couple of assault mechs with garbage builds hide behind some random rock for half the match.
  
• A voice “commander” from Tier 4.

Sure, all of this happened in 12v12 too, but with more players it didn’t feel quite as painful.

[Void Angel]

• Disconnects are rare;
  
• up to 70% of the queue has been Assaults at certain points (yesterday evening PST, for example;)
  
• Pilots have been far more aggressive because there's less firepower around to restrict movement;
  
• my main problem is getting people to talk at all

Maybe we're just playing during different times of the global day.

[Oriffel]

Void Angel, on 15 August 2025 - 07:05 AM, said:

• Disconnects are rare

Hasn't been my experience, and on 8v8 its much more devastating. Can't wait for this to end.



8 v 8 ... v 8 would have been a way cooler event.

I also haven't noticed a change in wait times, but honestly they weren't too bad for me before the event.

[I Make My Living Doing Gods Work]

martian, on 01 August 2025 - 09:55 PM, said:

Cauldron and PGI boosting massively the influence of premades in the game ... I am shocked. Actually, I am not.

LOL

By the way, I can tell you one reason why " search times have been trending upwards" .

It is because of that stupid two phase Summer Loot bags event. Since the damage that I might do now would not count towards the Phase 02 damage goal, it is pointless for me to keep playing. Essentially, my efforts would be wasted. The only logical course of action is to ignore MWO for the next three weeks and start playing again AFTER that useless Phase 02 begins. I guess I am not alone who understands this simple principle.

And do you know what really smart players do? They have been ignoring MWO right from the start for the entire July and the most of August, waiting for that useless Phase 02 to begin, so both their Match Score and damage really count.

This entire problem is really a problem of your own making.

I cant and wont argue this great post. MWO you did this to yourself by pissing off the tier 1 and 2 players of the game and they left. The increased time is due to the amount of players in que. 8 v 8 will not save this game or your investment into the company. It is a great game that will eventually die. Sad really.

[CwStrife]

I Make My Living Doing Gods Work, on 15 August 2025 - 09:47 AM, said:

I cant and wont argue this great post. MWO you did this to yourself by pissing off the tier 1 and 2 players of the game and they left. The increased time is due to the amount of players in que. 8 v 8 will not save this game or your investment into the company. It is a great game that will eventually die. Sad really.

Upper management keeps making the same bad decisions.... hopefully they will see the light but I dunno from previous podcasts i've seen it doesn't look like it's going in the right direction for the future of their MW franchise.

Edited by CwStrife, Today, 12:37 PM.