26 replies to this topic

[Mayhem Lewis]

Giving full consideration to the buffs Machine guns get, including internals, being able to strip armor vs the Battletech basis of the various versions; the follwing changes need to be made to them:

- MGS should only do 1% of their possible damage to fully armored sections
- Damage would increase in direct proportion to the amount of armor on a target section hit, i.e. a section with 50% of its armor gone would take 50% of the potential damage from mgs.
-The ranges of all forms of the mgs reduced
- Bar mechanic, just as beam laser, flamers, ultras, have a bar mechanic so should mgs
- Full bar leads to increasing chance of malfunction, be it jam or heat
- Firing more than 6 mgs should accelerate the bar mechanic, incouraging pilots to alternate firing groups if they are boating mgs.
- The sound of the weapons should be changed for more accurate data collection by target
- The spread needs to be a moderate cone, rather than the large unrealistic paint brush currently in effect.

[GreyNovember]

Alright, what killed you?

[Lollerisms]

TT isn't and shouldn't be a source of balance decisions but MGs in BT do full damage to armor. They also don't jam.

Edited by Lollerisms, 01 September 2025 - 08:43 PM.

[Rosarius]

Lollerisms, on 01 September 2025 - 08:43 PM, said:

TT isn't and shouldn't be a source of balance decisions but MGs in BT do full damage to armor. They also don't jam.

And even if it was, in TT an MG does the same amount of damage per turn as an AC2. If we extrapolate this to MWO, a single MG should do 2.8 DPS, nearly triple what it does right now.

[SnakeEyes00]

"buffs machine guns get"

They haven't been buffed/touched in ages. The last changes were to differentiate them from each other.

They already make sounds when shooting a target.

[pbiggz]

Mayhem Lewis, on 01 September 2025 - 06:37 PM, said:

Giving full consideration to the buffs Machine guns get, including internals, being able to strip armor vs the Battletech basis of the various versions; the follwing changes need to be made to them:

- MGS should only do 1% of their possible damage to fully armored sections
- Damage would increase in direct proportion to the amount of armor on a target section hit, i.e. a section with 50% of its armor gone would take 50% of the potential damage from mgs.
-The ranges of all forms of the mgs reduced
- Bar mechanic, just as beam laser, flamers, ultras, have a bar mechanic so should mgs
- Full bar leads to increasing chance of malfunction, be it jam or heat
- Firing more than 6 mgs should accelerate the bar mechanic, incouraging pilots to alternate firing groups if they are boating mgs.
- The sound of the weapons should be changed for more accurate data collection by target
- The spread needs to be a moderate cone, rather than the large unrealistic paint brush currently in effect.

Posting doesn't make your mech any less exploded. You need to practice introspection, not reflexively resort to demanding whatever killed you gets banned.

[Flash Riprock]

I ran a Flea 17(?) yesterday with only 8 light machine guns and 19,000 rounds of ammo.
I had what I feel was a decent game, but got no kills, as everytime I was about to do so, a teammate got it. This happened 4 times, so I could have, probably, gotten 4 kills. But I was only cleaning up kills - I did not do any KMMD. I did exactly 450 damage after shooting 11,000 rounds. I also did just over 100 team damage.
I think machine guns are just fine. They are not OP.

[GreyNovember]

Flash Riprock, on 02 September 2025 - 07:30 AM, said:

I ran a Flea 17(?) yesterday with only 8 light machine guns and 19,000 rounds of ammo.
I had what I feel was a decent game, but got no kills, as everytime I was about to do so, a teammate got it. This happened 4 times, so I could have, probably, gotten 4 kills. But I was only cleaning up kills - I did not do any KMMD. I did exactly 450 damage after shooting 11,000 rounds. I also did just over 100 team damage.
I think machine guns are just fine. They are not OP.

How on earth did you accumulate 100 team damage in a single match, with LMGs? Did you not swing your crosshair away from your teammate when you saw?

Even alphaing pinpoint assaults would do this probably once by accident, and it'd be sub-100 per alpha. Laserboats would immediately turn away when I spectate them and someone walks into their beams.

[Flash Riprock]

GreyNovember, on 02 September 2025 - 09:01 AM, said:

How on earth did you accumulate 100 team damage in a single match, with LMGs? Did you not swing your crosshair away from your teammate when you saw?

Even alphaing pinpoint assaults would do this probably once by accident, and it'd be sub-100 per alpha. Laserboats would immediately turn away when I spectate them and someone walks into their beams.

I suspect it happened at the end of the match while we were all trying to kill a Locust and Commando. I was surprised myself.


It was an interesting experiment for sure. I will probably run it more for kicks and see what I can do with it.
Not a normal build for me for sure.

Edited by Flash Riprock, 02 September 2025 - 09:15 AM.

[Wraith 1]

Flash Riprock, on 02 September 2025 - 09:13 AM, said:

I suspect it happened at the end of the match while we were all trying to kill a Locust and Commando. I was surprised myself.


It was an interesting experiment for sure. I will probably run it more for kicks and see what I can do with it.
Not a normal build for me for sure.

You'd have to have solid aim on a friendly for nearly 15 seconds total for 100 team damage with 8 LMG. My guess is you either accidentally remembered the C-bill penalty that's labeled 'Team Damage' rather than the actual team damage number (I've been confused by this occasionally myself) or that you had some teammates nascar into your artillery strike.

[Saved By The Bell]

May be he hit a bit half alive friendly, something exploded = 100 damage.

[pattonesque]

Rosarius, on 01 September 2025 - 08:49 PM, said:

And even if it was, in TT an MG does the same amount of damage per turn as an AC2. If we extrapolate this to MWO, a single MG should do 2.8 DPS, nearly triple what it does right now.

sounds like an UNACCEPTABLE DEVIATION from the sainted tabletop values. Mayhem Lewis, appreciate you bringing this to our attention. I am calling for an immediate tripling of MG damage value so we can align with the true and perfect original Battletech math.

[Void Angel]

Don't feed the troll.

[Ilfi]

It's nice that machine guns are actually viable now. They were zero DPS "crit seeking" memes for literal years. Even now, they're not exactly outpacing RACs or X-Pulse weaponry-- which, curiously, are ALSO not on the cutting edge of the meta despite their high DPS. It's almost like high DPS face-tanking in a game with finite armor and no respawns is, by its nature, not a great play style.

I hope no one here is actually suggesting to nerf such a forgettable weapon archetype.

[Void Angel]

Actually, the HMG will keep pace with an SXPL in dps - if it's hitting structure. A Small XPulse will do 2.273 dps. A single HMG only does 1.5 dps, and no skill nodes affect this. However, damaging structure can cause critical hits, and critical hits deal additional damage to structure. Additionally, crit-seeking weapons like the HMG have increased crit chances and increased critical damage - including to structure. In the case of the HMG, this gives an average dps increase of 61%. XPulse lasers, like most weapons, simply inflict standard crits, which increases their dps by about 0.93%

Thus: SXPL will do 2.484dps before any quirks
HMGs will average 2.415 dps before any quirks are added in.

'Mech quirks can throw this way off, of course, but the damage against structure of both weapon systems are pretty similar. The SXPL does dramatically more damage to armor (which is usually most of a location's durability) at the cost of being much hotter, while the HMG keeps pace with it against structure for no heat, at the cost of ammo requirements and a cone of accuracy effect.

[kalashnikity]

Flash Riprock, on 02 September 2025 - 07:30 AM, said:

I ran a Flea 17(?) yesterday with only 8 light machine guns and 19,000 rounds of ammo.
I had what I feel was a decent game, but got no kills, as everytime I was about to do so, a teammate got it. This happened 4 times, so I could have, probably, gotten 4 kills. But I was only cleaning up kills - I did not do any KMMD. I did exactly 450 damage after shooting 11,000 rounds. I also did just over 100 team damage.
I think machine guns are just fine. They are not OP.

100 team damage with machine guns? I hope not. Tell me you dropped an errant airstrike or something.

[simon1812]

I agree that machineguns shouldn't be so effective against armor, just exposed internal and maybe cockpit.

[Void Angel]

Machine guns aren't effective against armor. They use a cone of fire that spreads damage all around, and gets worse with range; the reason they have their enhanced crit-seeking damage (and thus damage versus structure) is that they very much do suck a bit, otherwise.

[Terran123rd]

Ah, yes. The machine gun. A weapon sooo overpowered that the only mechs that bother using it are those that have the hardpoints to boat it or the quirks to pretend they do.

[Ttly]

Ooooh, here's an idea.
Why not buff MGs to ERSL range (200m)? With how pitiful its DPS is except against structure I don't really see why not.
Would also make them less positionally challenging to use sure, 150m is just a bit too low for its damage anyway.
HMGs can stay at 150m though, it does hurt people that get into its range pretty well already.

I mean hey, most builds that involves it are clearly pretty underperforming seeing as even the PIR-1 are more often seen with LMGs than MGs even, and anything bigger might as well use HMGs.

Edited by Ttly, 21 September 2025 - 01:10 PM.