6 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

How does the game determine direct and indirect fire? Does Tag effect which one it is? all this time playing I never really noticed it, but how does the game determine which one to use?

Edited by KursedVixen, 27 September 2025 - 07:33 AM.

[Void Angel]

Tag does not affect Line of Sight; at the risk of sounding pedantic, line of sight determines line of sight. =) If you can see the enemy 'mech and maintain your own sensor lock, you're in Line of Sight - it's only when you are firing over obstacles at something you cannot see that indirect fire flight patterns come into play, generally resulting in much more spread and a longer travel time.

[KursedVixen]

Void Angel, on 27 September 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:

Tag does not affect Line of Sight; at the risk of sounding pedantic, line of sight determines line of sight. =) If you can see the enemy 'mech and maintain your own sensor lock, you're in Line of Sight - it's only when you are firing over obstacles at something you cannot see that indirect fire flight patterns come into play, generally resulting in much more spread and a longer travel time.

so direct fire is triggered when you have line of sight?

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 27 September 2025 - 08:32 PM, said:

it's only when you are firing over obstacles at something you cannot see that indirect fire flight patterns come into play, generally resulting in much more spread and a longer travel time.

Just wanted to add my experience into the mix here... I've actually have found that there are times when, I can clearly see the target, have a lock on it, shoot my LRMs, and they go into indirect fire high arc... right into a low ceiling. In reverse, I've also had times when, I have an indirect lock, I go to shoot my LRMs, and they fire in the direct line of sight low firing arc, right into a rock in front of my target.

So... I don't know exactly how it determines if you are actually line of sight or not, but I can say my experience leaves me with a greater desire for the specifics.


I do also want to add, I do know that target locks are typically based (from my experience) upon the center of the mech. It isn't a matter of seeing any part, a percentage, or something like that. It's based upon if you can see the very center of the mech. Back when Radar Deprivation was able to be 100% instant lock drop, there were some maps that had dangling parts that blocked LoS. I had cases of mechs that would cross those thin obstructions, I could still clearly see them, but because I could not see the exact center of the mech all the time (despite it being about 10% of the mech covered), they would blip on and off target lock as they walked through the minor obstructing terrain. (This no longer happens, as Radar Deprivation doesn't go to 100% anymore, thankfully.)

[Void Angel]

KursedVixen, on 28 September 2025 - 03:55 AM, said:

so direct fire is triggered when you have line of sight?

Yes. There can be instances where the game is confused, however. Tesunie is correct in that the game draws line of sight to a central point on the enemy target, and while this process is generally reliable, there can be... Edge Cases. I had actually forgotten that fact. My guess is that it's related to the kind of rendering issues that cause invisible walls - like Exploitation Point, in Tourmaline (sniper position on the F4/G5 corner,) though it may not function the same.

In any case, you can generally count on LoS flight patterns when you can see the center line of the enemy 'mech - TAG cuts through stealth armor and ECM, decreases lock-on time, and gives better grouping plus (I think) tracking strength. [EDIT: I don't see anything about tracking strength from TAG.)

Edited by Void Angel, 28 September 2025 - 10:34 PM.

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 28 September 2025 - 01:12 PM, said:

TAG cuts through stealth armor and ECM, decreases lock-on time, and gives better grouping plus (I think) tracking strength.

Last I knew, TAG (and I think NARC) will let LRMs have a grouping similar to if the LRMs had LoS, even if they don't. The Decreases to Lock-on time for TAG should only be to the level of making indirect locks as fast as a direct LoS lock. AKA: It wont make your LoS lock happen any faster.

I don't believe TAG impacts Tracking Strength, besides maybe if indirect fire has worse strength than direct fire (which I don't think there is any difference there).

To say it to be clear, Indirect fire has a higher arc, longer lock times, longer travel time (due to the steeper arc meaning more flight time needed before impact) and greater spread. Direct fire had faster lock times (determined by range), a flatter arc (which means at the same velocity it gets on target much faster) and reduced spread, in comparison to indirect.

The only means to improve LRMs in Direct Fire mode, as far as I know, is with Artemis (excluding Stealth Armor and ECM). And Artemis only improves grouping with direct fire LRMs. Targeting Computers, BAP/CAP, Command Console, etc only gather data on your target faster (the damage display and loadout), not missile locks. (I know you already know this, just saying it for clarity.)

[Void Angel]

Hrm... I'd better go look this up. MechDB's Wiki has information from after the 2019 overhaul... need to separate old memories from current facts.

---

OK! Turns out, TAG does now offer direct-fire benefits to both spread and Target Decay for the TAG 'mech. For others, it does only allow targeting and remove the indirect fire spread penalties:

Quote

A TAG is a beam weapon with infinite duration that causes no damage. Hitting an enemy with a TAG laser enables targeting of ECM and stealth mechs, improves indirect-fire target lock-on times and missile spread to equal those of direct-fire missiles (a 20% bonus to each), and provides directional information on the battle grid for the targeted mech.
TAG also gives a spread reduction (25%) and a target decay bonus (+.5 seconds) to mechs with lockons using it themselves for direct fire.

As shown here, the spread effect of TAG are determined in real time. LRM spread will rapidly change mid-air, while the missiles are in flight, depending on whether a TAG laser is currently hitting the target.
The effects of TAG lasers have changed since release. A TAG laser does not do any of the following:

• It does not improve lock-on times for direct-fire missiles (only for indirect-fire missiles).
  
• It does not improve target information gathering times.
  
• It does not fully counter ECM or Stealth Armor. Instead, it enables the targeting of ECM mechs or mechs with Stealth Armor. Even when hit with a TAG laser, ECM's low signal effect remains, and Stealth Armor is not inactivated or put on cooldown.
  
• It does not allow targeting of shut down mechs.

Additionally, Artemis provides a 30% spread bonus in line of sight only, and it's interesting to note that non-Streak lock-on weapons target the CT and rely on their spread mechanics to scatter the damage.

Edited by Void Angel, 28 September 2025 - 11:09 PM.