31 replies to this topic

[Jelan]

So I've discussed this many times and you always get anecdotal answers including myself. Cauldron is full of tryhards so you wont get a real world view from there, just maintaining their view of the game. PGI is only keeping the servers on as long as it makes money obviously, so to make changes they need to be convinced it will make money. Personally I think the hardcore roleplayers that kept MWO alive in arcades for years should be the target audience, but I don't have the figures to prove that. So what is my point?

Well there's two things for me, one old and one new, lights and railguns (railguns are just the latest impact on TTK creep). Hit reg on lights has always been terrible and the firemoth has exacerbated that issue. They can take a 100 alpha strike and barely register the hits. PGI knew this was an issue and still released the firemoth in its current state

Then the railgun, why oh why? Obviously I know why, Cauldron wanted it. PGI knew it would raise more money so obviously it came in, but it once again reduces the TTK.

TTK and Hit Reg are the ultimate issues here. I started the game in beta and took a long break after a few years, notwithstanding the decisions PGI made back then to balance the game (LRMs and Poptarting) and intro new stuff, brawls and fights were much more heroic. Now you just get instagibbed by ERLL, Gauss, HAG and Railguns at 1km which isn't what mechwarrior is about.

yes yes, I get the trolling by the gamers vs the roleplayers but we could have a happy medium which imho would retain and regain more players than the current path.

[PurplePuke]

I don't think either the Firemoth of the Railgun are that big of a deal. Killed plenty of fragile firemoths. Killed plenty of Railgun mechs and only died to a handful. They're not that big of a deal, at least not in quickplay.

I think people just like to criticize anything new, and complain about PGI and the Cauldron people. It goes on and on, year after year.

[Rhaelcan]

PurplePuke, on 30 October 2025 - 09:24 AM, said:

I don't think either the Firemoth of the Railgun are that big of a deal. Killed plenty of fragile firemoths. Killed plenty of Railgun mechs and only died to a handful. They're not that big of a deal, at least not in quickplay.

I think people just like to criticize anything new, and complain about PGI and the Cauldron people. It goes on and on, year after year.

People really do blame things on cauldron, though they are the ones who kept the game alive for quite a few years so far. They do actual balancing, too. If something is too op, they nerf it. If it's weak? They'll buff it.

I still get good games with brawling, you just need to play safe. Running out in the open gets you killed no matter what, even before all of the sniping.

[Ilfi]

Railgun is a small outlier in its range bracket, but mostly because it's also attached to one of the best Clan Assaults in the game. As for Lights (and Mediums), they're fine but nothing special. The vast majority of players will get more bang for their buck in solo queue bringing Heavies and Assaults with the highest, nastiest alphas they can fit on there. Can't handle 45 kph? Shed some skin and some dakka, but the end goal is the same. Get a good position, blow your load, find a better position, repeat until you or they are dead.

Unfortunately for a lot of players, it's not 2012 anymore and it's way too late to go back to reduced hardpoints, 1x armor and IS-only weapon balance. I won't pretend I'm the biggest fan of brawling being an afterthought thanks to player count and map design, but there are enough viable medium- and long-range builds to satisfy the majority of players. All it takes is a little effort, the willingness to research your options and pick the best variant out of the bunch to succeed.

This is not the kind of game where you can just pick your favorite robot (e.g. an Uziel), put your favorite weapons on it (say, RACs), and succeed. And to be frank, MechWarrior PvP was NEVER that-- not in 5 Clans, 4, not in 3, and not in 2. Expecting balance to be so good that every weapon and Mech is not just viable, but meta-compliant, is a pipe dream.

Regarding hit registration, perhaps if we weren't matching multiple continents into the same match, we could get some improvements there. But in a 14 year old game with sub-1,000 concurrent player counts at all times of day, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[VeeOt Dragon]

there is a definite bias among the cauldron though. look at the current state of LRM, they have been nerfed so bad that you need a mech with good quirks just to run them, i'm not talking small quirks either, you need like a total of 45% buff to velocity just to hit anything past 300m. i have heard that many in the cauldron would remove them entirely from the game if they could.

but yeah not many pvp only games survive as long as MWO has so at least we have that. honestly just needs some advertising and would could very likely get more people, PGI just doesn't want to invest anything in that do that. well that and we need a hard ban on any T1 players in T5 games so the newbies have a chance to get a feel for things. (so yes if you are grouped up and there is a T1 in your group your entire group should be banned from T5 while grouped up)

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

VeeOt Dragon, on 30 October 2025 - 09:51 PM, said:

there is a definite bias among the cauldron though. look at the current state of LRM, they have been nerfed so bad that you need a mech with good quirks just to run them, i'm not talking small quirks either, you need like a total of 45% buff to velocity just to hit anything past 300m. i have heard that many in the cauldron would remove them entirely from the game if they could.

but yeah not many pvp only games survive as long as MWO has so at least we have that. honestly just needs some advertising and would could very likely get more people, PGI just doesn't want to invest anything in that do that. well that and we need a hard ban on any T1 players in T5 games so the newbies have a chance to get a feel for things. (so yes if you are grouped up and there is a T1 in your group your entire group should be banned from T5 while grouped up)

...I have been running a SHD IIC with 4 CLRM10s and a Plasma and it has been doing passably, the quirks aren't even that drastic...? It's probably the first time I've played and enjoyed an LRM mech.

Edited by a 5 year old with an Uzi, 30 October 2025 - 10:23 PM.

[Duke Falcon]

Railgun on a Firemoth...
OP

'Till then..? Whatever! Both has counters, Firemoth is just harder to hit than a railgun shark...
But both'll go down if you land enough hit on them. Non-OPs just had their unique advantages (and disadvantages!).

[1453 R]

VeeOt Dragon, on 30 October 2025 - 09:51 PM, said:

...i have heard that many in the cauldron would remove them entirely from the game if they could.
...

Quotes or it didn't happen.

As best I understand, because I am not Cauldron and was promptly told to leave when I tried to join the Cauldron feedback Discord, the actual answer is "we hate the way LRMs and other lock-on missiles are implemented in MWO, and if we could we'd change how missile lock-ons work entirely. But we can't, so we have to work with what's there and the current lock-on system makes them incredibly difficult to balance, especially taking into account the difference between high-tier players who make effective use of cover versus low-tier players who charge spuds-first over 800+m of open ground at 50 or so KPH and expect to live through the explosive rain."

From recollections of past conversations, the Cauldron ideal is (broadly and loosely, paraphrased from memory) not to eliminate LRMs, but to eliminate indirect fire. IDF capabilities are the core issue behind LRMs' infamous reputation in this game, and eliminating IDF entirely would allow the weapons to be much more aggressively tuned for direct-fire engagements. No indirect fire with the possible exception of teamplay equipment like NARC or TAG, "fire and forget" lock-ons that allow the missiles to acquire lock and then fire without you needing to maintain lock (so that missile boats can employ defensive twisting and positioning instead of being required to face stare), possibly balanced with much longer cooldown/cycle times - make them weapons that fight the overall combat paradigm of MWO rather than the half-implemented kinda-disaster they are now.

Just to argue against one of the many multitudinous "THE CALDRON ARE ALL AN EVIL CONSPIRACY!!" points raised in this thread.

[pattonesque]

Jelan, on 29 October 2025 - 04:25 PM, said:

Hit reg on lights has always been terrible and the firemoth has exacerbated that issue. They can take a 100 alpha strike and barely register the hits. PGI knew this was an issue and still released the firemoth in its current state

you missed

[a 5 year old with an Uzi]

1453 R, on 31 October 2025 - 10:57 AM, said:

As best I understand, because I am not Cauldron and was promptly told to leave when I tried to join the Cauldron feedback Discord

Everything else duly noted, but wtf.

[VeeOt Dragon]

i wouldn't doubt they were told to leave from what i have heard. i personalty stay out of most social media so i never even considered joining the discord for them. besides i am the kind of payer that they hate. i player for fun and rarely use anything close to meta. just an average player trying to find a bit of joy in life (aslo i am Ex-US Army M-270 operator so indirect fire with LRM scratches an itch that arty strikes in this game just can't) i like LRM and think their implementation is fine. hell add a spread increase in IDF after say 500m and return Velocity so you can hit something close to max range and we may see fewer snipers or at least make their job a bit harder.

[Jelan]

PurplePuke, on 30 October 2025 - 09:24 AM, said:

I don't think either the Firemoth of the Railgun are that big of a deal. Killed plenty of fragile firemoths. Killed plenty of Railgun mechs and only died to a handful. They're not that big of a deal, at least not in quickplay.

I think people just like to criticize anything new, and complain about PGI and the Cauldron people. It goes on and on, year after year.

Well clearly you're right, thank god for that. I mean I've also killed lots of FMTs and Railsharks, but based on your post I'm clearly wrong, thank the ancestors you replied to let me know

[Jelan]

Anyone that claims the hitreg on lights is ok is either an exclusive light pilot or a pgi apologist. When I can put a 100 dmg alpha strike into a fast moving light at short range on my screen and it barely turns yellow let alone orange or red says that there is an issue.

With regards to Cauldron, it requested the railgun. Arguably the implementation was PGIs, but they listen to the Cauldron. Now once again those that defend it current implementation are obviously railgun maximalists as even PGI are planning to nerf it. It should never have been added, at least not in its current format. TTK has dropped dramatically over the years and the elite players will always maximise that, no criticism of that, but it ruins the game for the average player which are a much bigger percentage of the player base. Therefore those guys (including me) get fed up with the getting ganked in seconds for a simple mistake and go elsewhere.

A great example of that is the when PGI have added the 8v8 queue, its more forgiving for the casual player and in my experience much more fun as a mediocre player

pattonesque, on 31 October 2025 - 02:44 PM, said:

you missed

OMG you are also right, thank god a Tier 1 player that feels the need to display their Tier like an epeen wave helped me realise that I'm wrong. I mean its weird that I've played since closed beta and yet now hit reg is much worse than it was back then. Probably nothing to do with the speed of lights and the limitations of the game engine, I mean its not like PGI were aware of an issue before launching the FMT. So its probably nothing eh

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jelan, on 02 November 2025 - 03:37 PM, said:

TTK has dropped dramatically over the years

Lol, if that were true, average damage would have gone down over the years instead of what actually has happened where it has gone up. Then again, the reality of the situation wouldn't fit your crusade so of course you wouldn't bring it up.

Jelan, on 02 November 2025 - 03:37 PM, said:

A great example of that is the when PGI have added the 8v8 queue, its more forgiving for the casual player and in my experience much more fun as a mediocre player

8v8 is actually less forgiving because each individual has more impact in the outcome of a match (and thus a single person's mistakes are more costly). It was divisive because of this, because some people felt more punished than others and the games felt more stompy (mistakes tend to snowball in this game after all). TBH there was probably an even split across tiers on whether they enjoyed 8v8 or 12v12 as even in comp circles people were split.

Edited by Quicksilver Aberration, 02 November 2025 - 09:37 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Jelan, on 02 November 2025 - 03:37 PM, said:

OMG you are also right, thank god a Tier 1 player that feels the need to display their Tier like an epeen wave helped me realise that I'm wrong. I mean its weird that I've played since closed beta and yet now hit reg is much worse than it was back then. Probably nothing to do with the speed of lights and the limitations of the game engine, I mean its not like PGI were aware of an issue before launching the FMT. So its probably nothing eh

You missed.



If he can hit me in a firemoth when I'm gunning it specifically trying to NOT GET HIT, consistently, and make me run away instead of risk continuing the dance?

You missed.

Or you can double down and claim it's something else.

[pattonesque]

Jelan, on 02 November 2025 - 03:37 PM, said:

OMG you are also right, thank god a Tier 1 player that feels the need to display their Tier like an epeen wave helped me realise that I'm wrong. I mean its weird that I've played since closed beta and yet now hit reg is much worse than it was back then. Probably nothing to do with the speed of lights and the limitations of the game engine, I mean its not like PGI were aware of an issue before launching the FMT. So its probably nothing eh

You missed. Very likely you panicked and freaked out the moment you saw a light and you either didn't lead your shots properly or couldn't hold a burn on the target. You missed.

[pbiggz]

GreyNovember, on 02 November 2025 - 09:40 PM, said:

You missed.



If he can hit me in a firemoth when I'm gunning it specifically trying to NOT GET HIT, consistently, and make me run away instead of risk continuing the dance?

You missed.

Or you can double down and claim it's something else.

pattonesque, on 03 November 2025 - 06:52 AM, said:

You missed. Very likely you panicked and freaked out the moment you saw a light and you either didn't lead your shots properly or couldn't hold a burn on the target. You missed.

/thread

no further discussion required. ive been around long enough to know when this game DID have serious hit registration problems. serious enough that a whole class of 70kph medium mechs were considered fast and hard to hit. Y'all are just panicking and whiffing and then posting about it instead of practicing. This is a skill issue.

[1453 R]

Jelan, my guy. The argument "anyone who disagrees with my wild conjecture and unsupported accusations is clearly and obviously an exploitative jerk who's only defending these things because they want to farm bads with them!" is not remotely as convincing as you believe it is.

a 5 year old with an Uzi, on 31 October 2025 - 07:28 PM, said:

Everything else duly noted, but wtf.

I don't remember the specifics, as it's been a hot minute. But it was some variation on a combination of me holding some generally unpopular opinions and an exceptional level of clique-ness in that server. They want feedback...but they want it in an extremely specific way from specific people, and if you don't match that mold you catch vicious heat. I was not going to put up with that sort of abuse, so when they told me "figure it out or get lost", I chose the latter.

Oh well. No skin off my nose, they were never going to listen to a single low-tier player's ideas anyways. Heh, nor should they give undue credence to any one voice. I could just wish people were more willing to listen to the words someone says, rather than judging the person saying them.

[BlueDevilspawn]

1453 R, on 03 November 2025 - 09:17 AM, said:

Jelan, my guy. The argument "anyone who disagrees with my wild conjecture and unsupported accusations is clearly and obviously an exploitative jerk who's only defending these things because they want to farm bads with them!" is not remotely as convincing as you believe it is.



I don't remember the specifics, as it's been a hot minute. But it was some variation on a combination of me holding some generally unpopular opinions and an exceptional level of clique-ness in that server. They want feedback...but they want it in an extremely specific way from specific people, and if you don't match that mold you catch vicious heat. I was not going to put up with that sort of abuse, so when they told me "figure it out or get lost", I chose the latter.

Oh well. No skin off my nose, they were never going to listen to a single low-tier player's ideas anyways. Heh, nor should they give undue credence to any one voice. I could just wish people were more willing to listen to the words someone says, rather than judging the person saying them.

Fwiw I think I remember the incident and that was mainly members of the community arguing with you.

Cauldron members have never asked someone to leave the server. In fact I personally have only ever banned one person for harassing Tiyos.

[1453 R]

Eh. Is what it is. I don't play the game steadily or deeply enough to give the sort of feedback the Cauldron really wants anyways, there's little scientific about my play. I just play, do my thing, and then drift off to something else. I'm not trying to put undue heat on you guys - though a little bit of that heat is due, so that much I'll cop to. Was mostly framing my earlier missile comments as "This is my best knowledge of the Cauldron's thoughts on the subject but I could be wrong, so grain-of-salt and all that." Did not want to speak authoritatively for the Cauldron.