18 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Have been playing more and more this year after years of sporadic play. The biggest change I noticed is ATMs and Thunderbolts.

In the before times would wait for another mech to engage a target or gain LOS with the target not aware before lobbing LRMs. Why? Because missile spread is a thing and I would lose on trades with lasers and ballistics. Pin point weapons.

With ATMs and Thunderbolts I will close and in some cases face tank with them. Why? Devastating pin point damage in their effective range.

EZ mode.

What are the drawbacks of these weapons? There has to be some. I am just not aware of them.

[Lanzman]

Vulnerability to AMS.

[Meep Meep]

Lanzman, on 01 December 2025 - 07:18 AM, said:

Vulnerability to AMS.

Both were easy prey to massed ams before this patch but now laser ams got mega buffed and even a single lams will eat most of an atm or tbolt salvo. As to their drawbacks they are a lockon and are very map and team dependent. They can be a pain if you get caught out in the open but thats true of pretty much any weapon.

[KursedVixen]

Yet ATMS will not function within 60m thunderbolts still function at reduced damage within this range.

Thunderbolts also have an LRM styled arc while ATMs fly straight and though can be arced a little are not really that good at firing over hills or moutains.

Edited by KursedVixen, 01 December 2025 - 12:22 PM.

[Xypherious]

ATMs have a horrible, flat arc, making LOS to your target required to hit. Totally negates the extended range.

[KursedVixen]

Xypherious, on 01 December 2025 - 01:08 PM, said:

ATMs have a horrible, flat arc, making LOS to your target required to hit. Totally negates the extended range.

We need iATMs fo fix that but you can lob them over small hills if you do it right. I stil think they need to work in 0 meters even if the damage is 1.5 per missile from 0-60.

Edited by KursedVixen, 01 December 2025 - 03:33 PM.

[1453 R]

ATMs can be very punishing in the right circumstances, but they're still not awesome in a direct, head-to-head fight. Generally you need to lock on before you can fire, and if you both engage at the same time that means the direct-fire 'Mech easily lands the first shot. A high-output laser alpha machine can saw half your 'Mech off before you even get to shoot due to the lock-on delay, and if you try and twist off that damage you lose your lock and thus your ability to shoot back at all.

As well, as stated, the new AMS buffs put a serious cramp in missiles' viability. A single LAMS with both Overload skill nodes will easily cut damage from even dense missile salvoes by a dramatic percentage, and given that the best AMS machines are historically quick skirmishers using a moderate number of launchers rather than the Giga Chungus nonsense LRM people always salivate over, those get pretty savagely beaten in by new LAMS. A single COR-7A with two standard AMS (for general team coverage) and two laser AMS (for personal total missile immunity) can turn your ATM or LRM game off entirely, which no other weapon type suffers from.

They're good, no doubt. But direct-fire builds generally aren't hurting against them unless the ATM or Thunderbolt caddy can get the drop on them, or find an angle to attack without being focused in return.

[Lincoln Cross]

This is a joke right?

[Ted Wayz]

Lanzman, on 01 December 2025 - 07:18 AM, said:

Vulnerability to AMS.

Have not really noticed a vulnerability to AMS, Probably because I fire within the effective range and lack of many players carrying AMS.

LRMs appear to be more impacted by AMS,

Xypherious, on 01 December 2025 - 01:08 PM, said:

ATMs have a horrible, flat arc, making LOS to your target required to hit. Totally negates the extended range.

Read the original post.

I use them as a more effective version of MRMs. Do not bother to fire ATMs at their long range.

Lincoln Cross, on 02 December 2025 - 04:55 AM, said:

This is a joke right?

Valid question.

No.

[Ted Wayz]

KursedVixen, on 01 December 2025 - 03:32 PM, said:

We need iATMs fo fix that but you can lob them over small hills if you do it right. I stil think they need to work in 0 meters even if the damage is 1.5 per missile from 0-60.

Read the OP. Do not use them over hills or try not to.

As for locks both can be easily "dumb fired". The flat trajectory is good for something with ATMs when you maintain LOS.

[caravann]

Streaks should been the topic how them almost able to travel around a corner but limited by walls which shouldn't be happening as streaks only launch on verified lock-ons and easy to counter with ecm.

ATM is basically long range streak srm.

Thunderbolt has really bad short range lock-on.

At some extend it is cowardice to not look into the eyes of your opponent. Missiles aren't really realistic missiles as they're too small that they're flechettes and guided bullets. Them could been changed as such.

[Ilostmycactus]

Imo it doesn't make any sense that a missile mech loses its lock for twisting. It's a radar(?) or some other kind of signature lock, not a laser designated lock which we have TAG for. It's not practical to fight up close with missiles if you always have to reacquire the lock. On another note, the hitbox for TAG seems very small, or at least tends to register closer to the center of a mech's mass.

[KursedVixen]

Ted Wayz, on 02 December 2025 - 05:25 AM, said:

Read the OP. Do not use them over hills or try not to.

As for locks both can be easily "dumb fired". The flat trajectory is good for something with ATMs when you maintain LOS.

Again the problem is the Atms do not work in anything lower than 60 meters, Mrms do.

by Op do you mean MY original reply or your first post in this topic?

Edited by KursedVixen, 02 December 2025 - 11:15 AM.

[LordNothing]

Ilostmycactus, on 02 December 2025 - 09:46 AM, said:

Imo it doesn't make any sense that a missile mech loses its lock for twisting. It's a radar(?) or some other kind of signature lock, not a laser designated lock which we have TAG for. It's not practical to fight up close with missiles if you always have to reacquire the lock. On another note, the hitbox for TAG seems very small, or at least tends to register closer to the center of a mech's mass.

target retention. default on all short-mid range guided missile boats.

[Ttly]

LordNothing, on 02 December 2025 - 12:09 PM, said:

target retention. default on all short-mid range guided missile boats.

They're talking about the lock-on CIRCLE for lock-on weapons, not the lock-on SQUARE/RECTANGLE for target info/paper doll.

You just straight up can't really torso twist if you want the circle lock to stay, at most you can use the hold-armlock keybind to keep your torso facing locked the other way while your arm crosshair tries to wiggle over the red target rectangle.
Which isn't that useful because most stuff can only wiggle their arms around like +20 degrees from torso facing to the side? At that angle your ST/CTs are still pretty vulnerable in most hitboxes, and that's assuming you even have a lower arm joint in the first place to do it.

No, target retention doesn't help with it, it only helps so that when you lock for paper doll, twist away (or target moves) and loses direct LoS, your targeting rectangle (the one for paper doll) stays, and even then it's not really that much more useful than T.Decay which also lets you do it though with a time-limit (susceptible to R.Dep) instead of range-limit.
And at the range (200-400m) where you could use T.Retention, the paper doll speed (target info gathering) are short enough that you can also just spam the target lock keybind instead of using it you ask me.

Also the funny thing about T.Retention is how the game could recognize when a target is possible to be in your LoS or not, since apparently it could differ between actual twisting away/target moving behind you, or objects blocking your sight to target (where it stops locking for you).

Oh and really, a lot of people should change their keybind for the target lock to E or something, R is just nowhere as ergonomic as E you ask me for how often you should tap it.
And play with arm-lock off, so that torso twisting doesn't feel so sluggish.

Edited by Ttly, 02 December 2025 - 03:08 PM.

[LordNothing]

i always figured it kept your lock alive for twists. seems that was the behavior. that said i dont use guided missiles a whole lot.

[Ilostmycactus]

That was indeed what I was referring to.

Edited by Ilostmycactus, 03 December 2025 - 02:12 PM.

[Meep Meep]

LordNothing, on 02 December 2025 - 03:33 PM, said:

i always figured it kept your lock alive for twists. seems that was the behavior. that said i dont use guided missiles a whole lot.

Target retention retains paper doll info within the 200+200m range the nodes grant if a mech moves behind you.

Target decay retains the red targeting box if they move out of los for longer.

Nothing helps keep the lock if you move your crosshair out of the red targeting box.

[Xypherious]

Ted Wayz, on 02 December 2025 - 05:19 AM, said:

Read the original post.

I use them as a more effective version of MRMs. Do not bother to fire ATMs at their long range.

I did. You asked what the drawbacks were, I cited the one I find most aggravating. That YOU personally don't try to use them at range doesn't make that issue disappear.

Edited by Xypherious, 03 December 2025 - 04:35 PM.