40 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Shineplasma, on 21 December 2025 - 01:25 AM, said:

Nobody ranked in the top 25k Counterstrike players would be spewing this nonsense in the MWO forums while seemingly being unable to break even 300 average match score - which is a low bar.

I played OG Counterstrike back in the day, and a friend of mine used to hang out with players in the old CAL League. He knew a guy who had memorized the AK-47's recoil pattern (wasn't random; it was 2004.) Dude could strafe across a hallway and put every round at head level - jerking the mouse around like a crazed weasel. There are people around that can do amazing things, especially with rigs tuned to their physical abilities and preferences. Hackusators just make me tired.

Speaking of: GUYS! Hakusators are, in addition to being fatiguing, notably immune to anything resembling reasonable thought. Tell it that its accusations are dumb, and then just don't feed the troll.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

Void Angel, on 21 December 2025 - 02:21 PM, said:

Speaking of: GUYS! Hakusators are, in addition to being fatiguing, notably immune to anything resembling reasonable thought. Tell it that its accusations are dumb, and then just don't feed the troll.

So...you see how I didn't actually say anything bad or offensive, right? I haven't shamed anyone, and haven't personally attacked anyone. I just advocated for matchmaking improvements and/or efforts to combat cheating (which definitely exists in MWO, and everyone here knows that it exists, like the big elephant in the room that it is). In turn, I was met exclusively with responses like:

- "mad"/"cope"
- "you suck at the video game!"
- "your stats suck!"
- deep dive into my stats to discredit me (because stats determine how valid arguments are, obviously)
- "waaaah"/"tears"
- "get better scrub"
- my friend has learning disabilities (yikes!)

It's just a non-stop stream of unprovoked ad hominem, with every single thing said being about me, and not about what I'm saying. Why the fallacious personal attacks from every single "world champion" the game has suddenly coming out of the woodwork? The answer is simple: I'm rocking the boat, and they don't want the boat to be rocked, because they like things just the way they are. So they verbally assault me to try to make me feel bad in order to get me to tearfully leave here ASAP.

But, it won't actually work out that way. See, I'm essentially starting from a position of 0, while they're starting from a position of 100. I literally have nothing to lose by voicing my take on this, while they have quite a lot to lose, because if changes are made that restrict their ability to group-stomp random pugs, and that make it impossible for some of them to cheat (not all, some, obviously not everyone is cheating), it would make the game much less enjoyable for them.

They're making the mistake by assuming that I'm arguing with them, and that this is a debate they can win byshaming me enough. This is incorrect. All I'm doing is making arguments that can/might get used as a data point in PGi's decision-making in the future. So, and this is @Matt Newman or whoever else is active in the community, consider this: I just had a friend enter the game. We were even discussing what they could buy to start out that would best fit their play style. Then they had an absolutelty dogshit time in the game, and quit after a few hours. That was the only person I could convince to try the game in years. That's money that you will never get now, and a player who will not help replenish the game's declining population. I don't expect you to act on this alone, but at the very least I feel that you should be aware of it.

Edited by Baron Blitz Fokheimer, 21 December 2025 - 05:40 PM.

[LordNothing]

feed the birds.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

1453 R, on 21 December 2025 - 08:41 AM, said:

"My math says that playing well, being aggressive, and assaulting the enemy cannot possibly improve everybody's game experience! NO! My math says the only way to improve the game experience is the same tired ******** everybody's always spewing - which is to say fix the matchmaker so I personally get more wins and also nobody with friends can ever play the game again because blaming 'tryhard' lances of so-called Neckbeard Cheaters is easier than admitting I am not That Guy!"

I wanted to address this separately, because I find it particularly interesting that an attempt at instilling fairness into the system has been reframed as trying to get more stuff for myself.

Well, yes, that kind of is the point, if the current system favors those who exploit it on an institutional level in order to get more than their fair share. Something needs to be taken away from them in order to be given to terrible, incompetent, unskilled players like myself in order to make the game more enjoyable to more than the handful of "world champs" who are still around.

Regular players are systemically disadvantaged in matches due to group-farming, and this can even be proven with math:

There are 24 slots in a match. If there's a group of 4 on side A, then the odds for the 5th player to be placed on the advantaged side A are 40%, and the odds for the 5th player to be placed on the disadvantaged side B are 60%. In theory this should balance out if the matchmaker worked fairly and split groups evenly between the teams (and accounted for other factors, like personal skill, Elo, etc.). But in practice this doesn't happen, and in fact I've observed many games (that usually end within 4 minutes) where one side would have multiple organized groups, while the other would have randoms who overheat firing into the ground while walking directly into the enemy blob. Maybe because the matchmaker prioritizes tonnage over everything else, I don't know.

But why is the matchmaker so imbalanced? I doubt it's by design, unless PGI is really into rewarding the whales by giving them easy farm-time to keep their dopamine levels up.

Well, here's what these "world champs" don't tell you: these outfit players who are dropping in groups make a concerted effort to not drop at the same time as other groups in order to not have to deal with dangerous competition in their PUG-play. I was exposed to this during my brief participation with these outfits in the past (and this is why I wholly refuse to play in groups today, despite constantly getting adds from people trying to recruit me—is there a way to disable incoming friend requests?). After a difficult match in which another competent group was present, they'd "hold the drop" for a little bit in order to be dropped with the next batch of players, instead of re-queuing against the same group as before. I've observed multiple units do this, and it was just kind of a silent, implicit acknowledgement that this is just how things are done every single time. This sort of "system gaming" was also prevalent during Solaris.

So when some group-dropper starts telling you how you need to "git gud" at the video game or whatever, remember (and this is aimed at other people and random players who might be reading this, and not at the people desperately arguing against me by calling me trash at the game): you are their content.

Edited by Baron Blitz Fokheimer, 21 December 2025 - 06:12 PM.

[Shineplasma]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 21 December 2025 - 05:37 PM, said:

So...you see how I didn't actually say anything bad or offensive, right? I haven't shamed anyone, and haven't personally attacked anyone. I just advocated for matchmaking improvements and/or efforts to combat cheating (which definitely exists in MWO, and everyone here knows that it exists, like the big elephant in the room that it is). In turn, I was met exclusively with responses like:

- "mad"/"cope"
- "you suck at the video game!"
- "your stats suck!"
- deep dive into my stats to discredit me (because stats determine how valid arguments are, obviously)
- "waaaah"/"tears"
- "get better scrub"
- my friend has learning disabilities (yikes!)

It's just a non-stop stream of unprovoked ad hominem, with every single thing said being about me, and not about what I'm saying. Why the fallacious personal attacks from every single "world champion" the game has suddenly coming out of the woodwork? The answer is simple: I'm rocking the boat, and they don't want the boat to be rocked, because they like things just the way they are. So they verbally assault me to try to make me feel bad in order to get me to tearfully leave here ASAP.

But, it won't actually work out that way. See, I'm essentially starting from a position of 0, while they're starting from a position of 100. I literally have nothing to lose by voicing my take on this, while they have quite a lot to lose, because if changes are made that restrict their ability to group-stomp random pugs, and that make it impossible for some of them to cheat (not all, some, obviously not everyone is cheating), it would make the game much less enjoyable for them.

They're making the mistake by assuming that I'm arguing with them, and that this is a debate they can win byshaming me enough. This is incorrect. All I'm doing is making arguments that can/might get used as a data point in PGi's decision-making in the future. So, and this is @Matt Newman or whoever else is active in the community, consider this: I just had a friend enter the game. We were even discussing what they could buy to start out that would best fit their play style. Then they had an absolutelty dogshit time in the game, and quit after a few hours. That was the only person I could convince to try the game in years. That's money that you will never get now, and a player who will not help replenish the game's declining population. I don't expect you to act on this alone, but at the very least I feel that you should be aware of it.

You came in here and insulted the most dedicated players in the game and then slandered them with a baseless hackusation. All completely out of the blue.

What did you expect? A big sloppy kiss?

[ArmandTulsen]

People are afraid of others in this game? lol

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

Shineplasma, on 21 December 2025 - 06:11 PM, said:

You came in here and insulted the most dedicated players in the game and then slandered them with a baseless hackusation. All completely out of the blue.

What did you expect? A big sloppy kiss?

I didn't, especially in a way that singled anyone out. I merely said things that made them very uncomfortable.

Why would someone be upset if another player states that some top-rated players are cheating, if that someone isn't cheating him/herself? They literally have nothing to worry about.

It's like saying that "some UPS drivers steal packages" (a factual statement) and then someone gets upset because they're a UPS driver and "hey don't insult me!"

Psychotic behavior.

[Shineplasma]

Not all comp players drop in power group to nonstop stomp pugs. Your premise is utterly flawed.

In addition, dropping with other highly skilled players actually limits your farm potential/stat padding - there just aren't enough enemy armor points and components to go around.

You have some points about the matchmaker - which comp players have begged PGI to address for years and years prior to this forum thread, btw.

Anyways, try not to be an ******* next time, eh? ������

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 21 December 2025 - 06:16 PM, said:

I didn't, especially in a way that singled anyone out. I merely said things that made them very uncomfortable.

Why would someone be upset if another player states that some top-rated players are cheating, if that someone isn't cheating him/herself? They literally have nothing to worry about.

It's like saying that "some UPS drivers steal packages" (a factual statement) and then someone gets upset because they're a UPS driver and "hey don't insult me!"

Psychotic behavior.

Ah, defending peers you have worked with/scrimmed, stratted and played against for years is psychotic behavior huh?

Neat. Do go on.

Edited by Shineplasma, 21 December 2025 - 06:21 PM.

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

Shineplasma, on 21 December 2025 - 06:20 PM, said:

Not all comp players drop in power group to nonstop stomp pugs. Your premise is utterly flawed.

In addition, dropping with other highly skilled players actually limits your farm potential/stat padding - there just aren't enough enemy armor points and components to go around.

You have some points about the matchmaker - which comp players have begged PGI to address for years and years prior to this forum thread, btw.

Anyways, try not to be an ******* next time, eh? ������

Great, because I never said that all of them do. But that number is still above zero, and considerably so, and is thererfore a tangible problem that needs to be addressed for the general health of the game. Now, can we please dispense with the strawmen?

Most players do not have an enjoyable time playing 4-minute, 12-0 score matches, whether they're losing or winning. I personally hate such matches even if I wind up on the winning team, and even if I pump 800 damage and get 4 kills out of them. It's just not fun. It becomes like work at that point, like grinding for gold in a MMORPG. The only people who seem to disagree with this take are the stat-padders who rely on this environment they can exploit to grind stats. Because having 5.0 win ratios and 10:1 KDRs in a random drop matchmaking environment isn't rational. But I don't expect those people to agree or identify with this sort of morality, and my posts aren't for them anyway.

Shineplasma, on 21 December 2025 - 06:20 PM, said:

Ah, defending peers you have worked with/scrimmed, stratted and played against for years is psychotic behavior huh?

Neat. Do go on.

I play many multiplayer games, and if someone brings up cheating, I don't immediately get offended and start denying its existence just because I or people I know have good stats or reputations of efficiency or whatever. My first reaction would usually be to ask them to describe the situation(s) that led them to believe that there's cheating involved in order to analyze what actually happened and see if there's merit in the accusation(s) (and there sometimes is!), instead of immediately bandwagoning for my "world champ" friends.

So yes, it absolutely is psychotic behavior.

Edited by Baron Blitz Fokheimer, 21 December 2025 - 07:07 PM.

[BlueDevilspawn]

You specifically and multiple times said the World Champions are full of cheaters. That's very specific and absolutely targeting.

First of all, hackusations are not allowed in the forums. I'm calling this out for the mods. You don't even have the good faith to provide proof of your hackusations aside from "I know what I'm talking about, trust me." And you know what? No one trusts you.

Second, I've known members of every World Champion team from EmP through Coalition and none of them have cheated. People who HAVE been banned for cheating funnily enough are people who HATE World Champs, who are convinced those compies are cheating, and have as a result, justified their own use of cheats as fine. Ironically, because they're the ones actually cheating, they've been banned and now sport the lovely pink forum tag of "Banned - Cheating" for the playerbase to see. Yep, those haters who were so confidently wrong are the ones who get caught.

Third, the matchmaker will not guarantee a 50/50 split of wins and losses. Not a single matchmaker in the history of PvP can guarantee 0.500. You and yourself are responsible for your actions and outcomes.

Fourth and finally, the vast majority of groups are throw groups, not stompy carry groups. World Champs rarely play in groups because they're so good it kills the other team too fast for them to rack up any damage/matchscore.

Your premise, assumptions, victim mindset, and entitlement are so off the charts I don't expect you to actually absorb this message but it's the same one I would post to any would-be hackusator who thinks they're unfairly kept down in the ranks by anyone BUT THEMSELVES.

Edited by BlueDevilspawn, 21 December 2025 - 07:54 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

Not sure anyone would need to cheat to win a game of MWO. 2 or 3 players that know what they are doing coordinating their actions is more than enough.

A player on comms that knows what they are doing...just need one in that case.

The main issue I see are people not using the mini map and just charging forward. Seen more matches quickly end from people ignoring the information available and getting surrounded, leaving their assaults behind, etc.

I am all for pressing the advantage when you feel there is a weakness in the enemy lines. But in many cases not paying attention allows the other team to more effectively exploit your weaknesses.

Mini map and comms are free. Use them!

[Baron Blitz Fokheimer]

BlueDevilspawn, on 21 December 2025 - 07:50 PM, said:

You specifically and multiple times said the World Champions are full of cheaters. That's very specific and absolutely targeting.

Actually, I did not. I specifically said "top"/"top-rated"/"high-end" (as in top-ranked) and other terms like that. So that's a false accusation.

No, go ahead, quote the parts where I "specifically and multiple times said the World Champions are full of cheaters." None of those posts have been edited since you made this one, so it they should be easy to find.

BlueDevilspawn, on 21 December 2025 - 07:50 PM, said:

First of all, hackusations are not allowed in the forums. I'm calling this out for the mods. You don't even have the good faith to provide proof of your hackusations aside from "I know what I'm talking about, trust me." And you know what? No one trusts you.

Which is exactly why I didn't name any names or groups, and only discussed cheating in a general sense (that it exists, the prevalency and types of different types of cheats, etc.). As far as I know, this is allowed.

I know that you desperately want to shut me down, but at least be reasonable enough to actually read my posts so that you don't have to literally invent things that I've said in a conversation that's been active for barely a day.

BlueDevilspawn, on 21 December 2025 - 07:50 PM, said:

Third, the matchmaker will not guarantee a 50/50 split of wins and losses. Not a single matchmaker in the history of PvP can guarantee 0.500. You and yourself are responsible for your actions and outcomes.

Correct, but every matchmaker should effectively intend to accomplish just that. No system is perfect, but the one in MWO is exceptionally flawed due to the extreme variance in its outcomes. Whether it's by accident or by design, I don't know. But it's one of the worst matchmakers I've experienced in competitive multiplayer games.

BlueDevilspawn, on 21 December 2025 - 07:50 PM, said:

Your premise, assumptions, victim mindset, and entitlement are so off the charts I don't expect you to actually absorb this message but it's the same one I would post to any would-be hackusator who thinks they're unfairly kept down in the ranks by anyone BUT THEMSELVES.

Let me make this clear: I don't give two tiny little rat shits (pardon the French) about my ranks or stats or anything of the sort.

I've played this game consistently and simply learned to accept the status quo because "well, what can you do, there will be players like that in every competitive game."

I've seen this 20 years ago in Battlefield 2, where players would hide in secluded corners of the map to kill/revive each other to grind ranks and points. I've seen this in WoW where people would time arena drops with smurf accounts to grind rating. I've seen this in EVE Online, where massive alliances full of self-proclaimed "world champ" players would drop fleets of hundreds on top of solo PvPers roaming their space, but would cry bloody murder and file harassment petitions after losing 1v1 engagements. These people are in every game, and in MWO they take the form of group droppers who stomp on PUGs while doing everything they can to avoid fighting each other, and occasionally cheating.

This isn't new to me. And I've silently dealt with it while enjoying MWO in my own ways throughout the years. But when I see that it negatively affects someone I know, I'll be inclined to at the very least post about it in order to put the issue on the map for the developers. And you can cry, whine, and rage at me all you want, but these posts aren't going away, no matter how terrified you are of your gravy train being taken off the rails if they get noticed. And if they do go away, well, we'll know exactly where PGI stands on these issues.

Edited by Baron Blitz Fokheimer, 21 December 2025 - 09:07 PM.

[Lollerisms]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 21 December 2025 - 05:37 PM, said:

So...you see how I didn't actually say anything bad or offensive, right? I haven't shamed anyone, and haven't personally attacked anyone. I just advocated for matchmaking improvements and/or efforts to combat cheating (which definitely exists in MWO, and everyone here knows that it exists, like the big elephant in the room that it is).

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 20 December 2025 - 05:10 PM, said:

These aren't "world champion" players, as you say. They're 58-year-old, decrepit men with heads balding from their middle manager-tier careers and fat, aging wives yelling at them to take out the garbage in between QP matches. And these are the lucky ones who aren't divorced and drinking themselves into cirrhosis in their empty studio apartments after those fat, aging wives took everything but their MWO accounts. This is only somewhat tongue-in-cheek, and I'm sure you're getting the picture I'm trying to paint. They aren't pro gamers. They'd be in the bottom quartile in an actual pro gamer environment.

I dunno, that seems pretty personal and pretty shame-y to me.

[Shineplasma]

Its rare to see someone deploy this many words while saying so little.

[Saved By The Bell]

Rotating for other potatoes and communication create feeling of "right team play".

[Dogmeat1]

Baron Blitz Fokheimer, on 21 December 2025 - 07:06 PM, said:

I play many multiplayer games, and if someone brings up cheating, I don't immediately get offended and start denying its existence just because I or people I know have good stats or reputations of efficiency or whatever. My first reaction would usually be to ask them to describe the situation(s) that led them to believe that there's cheating involved in order to analyze what actually happened and see if there's merit in the accusation(s) (and there sometimes is!), instead of immediately bandwagoning for my "world champ" friends.

So yes, it absolutely is psychotic behavior.

Psychotic behaviour would be randomly jumping onto a thread, throwing out personal attacks and baseless accusations of cheating against a large group of players, refusing to provide even the slightest shred of evidence, then playing the victim card when the people being attacked actually respond. There is no online PvP gaming community in which such behaviour would be accepted or considered normal.

Yes cheating exists and when it happens, other players record them, upload the videos, and get that player banned. But your accusation was not just that cheating exists. You explicitly claimed;

Quote

Anyway, I've observed a whole bunch of these players blatantly cheating. I have a little list with a handful of names in it that I make sure to observe after initially suspecting them, and the component-toggling and ESP usage is absolutely shameless. I've played FPS competitively and know how to make and analyze cheats (on at least a rudimentary level), and I know what to look for and how to tell it apart from legitimate gameplay.

That's the accusation you made and the onus on you to back it up. Show us ingame footage of "a whole bunch of these players blatantly cheating". It takes an extremely small amount of effort to hit the record button on ShadowPlay/ReLive and record the previous 10-15 minutes of gameplay then drag&drop the videos onto youtube. You've spent 10x times as much effort on any one of your posts. Your refusal to provide evidence strongly indicates that you have none and likely haven't even seen any cheaters. It's far more likely just cope about the fact that better players than you exist, and that you don't exclusively get matched against players of lower skill than yourself.

But please feel free to prove me wrong by posting footage from your own matches.

[lastchanceforaslowdance]

To be on topic, OP has a good point here. Defeatism is contagious and broadcasting your personal frustrations in-game is psychologically subversive to your team. I try not to be so deathly afraid of competition, and consider using any perceived weighting as a measuring stick for one's own abilities. The mech repairs are free after all.

I understand there's a contingent of high-ranked players who want to team up with others of a similar skill level, and even if I don't find it particularly laudable, they should be allowed to do so. But seeing a few posts here saying "Oh but it actually makes it harder for them to farm" is a strange argument to make. I also think there's a blatant contempt some high-end players (groups or solo) display for us lower-skilled solo pugs that is unwarranted and only reinforces the malaise that exists in-game or even anywhere MWO is discussed.

[LordNothing]

Saved By The Bell, on 22 December 2025 - 04:00 AM, said:

Rotating for other potatoes and communication create feeling of "right team play".

until they say something stupid like "lets hang out in the spawn grid". so much for anyone who's defense depends on rapid movement. id say light mechs, but the guy in the charger is also swearing at any "team player" who says this. calls can be potato too.

people who alpha at the beginning of the match, they aren't testing their weapons, they are advertising their capabilities. so they guy in charge doesn't do things that make half the team stay in a ditch. game doesnt give much opportunity for pre planning otherwise.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 December 2025 - 10:42 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

I don't see the point worrying about going against comp teams when generally most of the playerbase is just gonna pug around and get gaped by a team who can coordinate above a level of a down syndrome baby no matter which side the comp players on. I don't even know what's going on with comp despite having friends who play in comp and telling who who in the end what all is matter my personal score and how much I pull my weight for a win, if it's not I deserve the loss and be reminded that failure to do better.

[Duke Falcon]

Yes, back on track!

I sometimes - being in T3 - drop against higher tier players. Some I note from here, the forums, some from FP. I not feel dread or fear because I know "they're better than me". I feel two things: a challenging test; I should had choose another build... Apart from these? Nothing.
If the high tier players so much better they would prevail and win. I guess most of them not like win with stomps just as much as the losign side not like to be stomped. But if noone tries their best but scatter or play dumb then it will be a STOMP, well deserved... Just sayin'...

Saved By The Bell, on 22 December 2025 - 04:00 AM, said:

Rotating for other potatoes and communication create feeling of "right team play".

You know that with a high chance the opposing team would nascar. If you assume they would why the cats start to nascar to? If someone tells them: Let's go the other way! they just nascar what is dumb. If the team would have some tactical sense they will prepare and go the other directions. The nascar would hit a fireline and grinded! I saw this a few times yet people still nascar...

OK, better not debate about the maps themselves. NASCAR-track, sniper-fest, whatever... If you know certain maps would result certain playstyle why not try to counter that instead to dumbly follow those "indoctrinated behaviours" => nascar, e.g...
All maps do offer options, counters. Or not if noone wants to find those, I guess...