52 replies to this topic

[FACEman Peck]

Sounds like FUN!!!

I can see a few problems with this concept right off the bat.

For example:

If a single weapon, such as a LRM-10, was shot out in a light battle and takes a week or so in game time and real time to get fixed, and have no replacement 'Mech to play with? MWO is gonna have a REALLY hard time keeping players in the game. I would just uninstall the game if that is how it's going to be.

Anyone agree?

Honestly, I think it should be a few minutes for a replacment for that LRM-10, an hour or so for a customization, like trading out a Gauss Rifle for some other ballistic, and a day for a complete custom job for your 'Mech, new guns, armor distribution/modifications, equipment installation, etc.

[Threat Doc]

This is being discussed all over the place, man. I think everyone pretty much agrees that 1:1 repair times are just not tenable, and it's understood well that players will drop like flies if that happens. However, it's also being talked about in many other threads what sort of time repairs will take because, as with nearly everyone agreeing that it shouldn't take the sourcebook times, most agree it should also NOT be instantaneous. Even being a purist I see the problems with real-time repairs and, again, many of us believe the devs will take the best course of action to keep the game fun.

[Gunther Kavorski]

Combining modular components and increasing salvage could allow players to maintain stores of replacement parts in their hanger or dropships for quick repairs. Further, salvage could be taken in damaged and take time to repair to keep things balanced out.

[EDMW CSN]

Repair time should depend on extent of damage. Having no crippled locations and internal damage means just slapping on armor. That is doable within minutes.

And if a component is damaged, it should be viable enough to do a fast swap as long certain constraints are met like re-using old criticals and using a 1 to 1 direct fire weapon swap for example. Heck that is how field refit packages work when the need to upgrade L1 mechs to L2 in time to face the Clanners.


Otherwise a system can be in place where you can hire better techs instead of the usual House techs that your Merc employer / House has available to you. Those House repairs can come in cheap or even free. But they take time. While experts like Mech Magic Inc (later known as Battle Magic) can really help speed up refit and repair times dramatically. At a cost of course.

[That Guy]

lets look at WoT as an example. it has instantaneous repairs, thus making the repair process kinda pointless other than to suck away some of your cash.

on the other hand, if repair actually take time to complete that might really irritate alot of people who just want to get out and fight (even if the repair process only takes 5 minutes). in a game like this, you are going to get damaged at the very least, or destroyed, there really is no way around it. so after every round you are going to have to fix up your mech.

unless there is going to be a deep extended campaign mode in game where time and resources are finite, then i am going to say, go with instant repairs.

with timed repairs it come down to an arbitrary "you cant play for X time because you arnt a god. ******" type thing that will really make game pacing much slower in the bad sence.

[EDMW CSN]

That Guy, on 27 December 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

lets look at WoT as an example. it has instantaneous repairs, thus making the repair process kinda pointless other than to suck away some of your cash.

on the other hand, if repair actually take time to complete that might really irritate alot of people who just want to get out and fight (even if the repair process only takes 5 minutes). in a game like this, you are going to get damaged at the very least, or destroyed, there really is no way around it. so after every round you are going to have to fix up your mech.

unless there is going to be a deep extended campaign mode in game where time and resources are finite, then i am going to say, go with instant repairs.

with timed repairs it come down to an arbitrary "you cant play for X time because you arnt a god. ******" type thing that will really make game pacing much slower in the bad sence.

That is what I was thinking of. Having to pay cash for better technical support should dramatically speed up repair times or even instantly. But if you are a penny pincher and don't mind waiting out while using some starter stock mechs, you can use the free repairs the House grant you, although they might be slower.

[Dlardrageth]

I think it is really two different topics here. One being repair times, the other the time needed for customization.

The former should be as minimal as possible, for the very reasons stated already. Not many people will sit around for an hour or more waiting for their Mech to be repaired. I personally think a few minutes would be okay, but probably PGI might have to go for near-instantaneous, some people have attention spans measured in mere seconds.

The latter is a totally different matter though, as customization can be as time-consuming as deemed necessary. For the simple reason that you can roll with your Mech without any customization just fine. Which you can hardly in a heavily damaged one. So undergoing the customization process and tieing your Mech up is the player's decision, and his only, and if it takes hours, days, weeks, tough luck. Noone forces anyone at gunpoint to customize.

And it is IMHO not PGI's job really to hold the player's hand, just because he thinks he cannot be bothered to wait the time it takes for a major customization. It was his call to start the process, and it isn't necessary like repairs are, to be able to play (again). So anyone whining about it taking too long to customize will just show his immaturity, nothing else.

[Kef]

Buy a second LRM-10 as a reserve, its so easy.

[Canned_Dman]

What happens if your mech is blown out from beneath you ? No one want to face the "D" word!

[EDMW CSN]

Dev909, on 27 December 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

What happens if your mech is blown out from beneath you ? No one want to face the "D" word!

If you are a House warrior and you are part of the Invasion corridor and still alive, you will get another mech ASAP.

[Kristov Kerensky]

What if you aren't a House Warrior, then what CSN? Mercs and Lone Wolves are just SoL? Yeah..that'll make people want to run/join Merc corps or be Lone Wolves...so much for the Dragoons, ELH, GDL, etc, who'd join anything but a House under that..no one.

Repairs..instant but cost you c-bills, ain't got the c-bills, then you end up with a negative balance and can't buy anything until you earn a positive balance..and really bad players would end up with massive negative account balances..but they could still jump right back into combat after getting that Jenny blown out from under them for the 30th consecutive time today.

Customization..if it's a variant of the stock, make it instant but cost c-bills, weapons costs + customization costs, need a positive balance that can afford the final cost or no go.

Scratch building or non-variant customization...this I could see taking time and c-bills, but hours, not days. Again, have to have enough c-bills to afford the entire job at once or no-go.

[Sir Aaron]

Okey the answer to this is a bit difficult. IF i have lets say 5 mechs. One is down i will take another, the one down will get repaired and take time for that. No problem at all. If i have only have one mech. And its down .. and its the only way i can take part in the play then it really should not take long and cost much if anything at all. The main and most imported thing is that i am able to join the play and if you really want to attract the free to play people you will not add to much costs to repairs, because lets be honest will we get ouer mech blown up at every second game at least, some at every.
So it would be okey if i am restricted for a time maybe to a different Mech. Or heaving weak armor or a limp if i want to go ahead or what ever, but if you can't Join any matches for an half hour because my Mech was blow up, i am pretty sure that many people will quit at that point.

[Tweaks]

I have also pointed out the problem in other threads, many times over. The 1:1 timeline is indeed a problem, and I really wonder how the devs are going to implement the repair/refit system, and inter-planetary travel, so that it doesn't look completely unplausible.

Repairs can't be instant, and neither can refits (especially class F), if they want to keep the timeline plausible. Even if you can purchase an army of techs to make the repair process faster, it still can't possibly be instant. It's science-fiction, not fantasy with magic! The same goes with inter-planetary travel (Jumpships).

Instant repairs/travel may make sense in an instant-action game (with no timeline or persistence) such as MW4, but it does not make sense in MWO.

I would really like to see how the devs are planing on tackling this issue.

[AlanEsh]

Tweaks, on 28 December 2011 - 07:34 AM, said:

I have also pointed out the problem in other threads, many times over. The 1:1 timeline is indeed a problem, and I really wonder how the devs are going to implement the repair/refit system, and inter-planetary travel, so that it doesn't look completely unplausible.

Repairs can't be instant, and neither can refits (especially class F), if they want to keep the timeline plausible. Even if you can purchase an army of techs to make the repair process faster, it still can't possibly be instant. It's science-fiction, not fantasy with magic! The same goes with inter-planetary travel (Jumpships).

Instant repairs/travel may make sense in an instant-action game (with no timeline or persistence) such as MW4, but it does not make sense in MWO.

I would really like to see how the devs are planing on tackling this issue.

I'm betting on a WoT approach here.

Random battles/matchups -- no mech locking, no travel time, instant repairs for credits paid
Planet ownership battles -- mechs used are locked to this theater for a certain period of time. damaged or destroyed mechs are unavailable for use in follow up battles until their "real time" repairs are done. BUT those mechs can still take part in the Random matches.

[MilitantMonk]

Seems like a 1:1 time for repairs (or or pay for faster) plus a 'mech hanger and parts stock piling seems fine. As long as you can always have a cheap or House provided loaner so you can always play. Just because you get shot out of your ride should not mean the end of your play session.

[Tannhauser Gate]

I think this discussion is unnecessary worry over something the devs already have a handle on. This is more of the debate over sim vs action, real time vs game time. Im sure salvage and new components will play roles as well as replacement mechs from your faction.

[Tweaks]

LakeDaemon, on 28 December 2011 - 08:10 AM, said:

I think this discussion is unnecessary worry over something the devs already have a handle on. This is more of the debate over sim vs action, real time vs game time. Im sure salvage and new components will play roles as well as replacement mechs from your faction.

Even with salvage and new components have to be installed. Installation takes time. It's no just a matter of repairing damaged components.

[Tannhauser Gate]

I understand what youre saying but I think this is an issue that will be addressed when the devs and beta testers play balance the game before launch. Its a detail among many that are part of the basic game mechanic that will be present on launch. Sort of a self-resolving issue based on the balance the devs will take care of.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 28 December 2011 - 08:25 AM.

[Threat Doc]

Okay, I'll advocate for the opposite of what I've been fighting for... the problems are time, refits/repairs, and travel. The ONLY option is to do it like other MMOs... with a twist...

Remove the 1:1 time barrier, and it IS a barrier, so just remove it altogether. Make the system "tripwire" and "benchmark" based, instead. You have the events of the Clan Invasion all lined out in the sources, they all have their dates, etc. Put each event on a tripwire that only activates once a benchmark is reached. For example, the fight on the Periphery between the Kell Hounds and Clan Wolf can only take place once a certain amount of real-time has passed, so the vast majority of MechWarriors can complete training -or a timer runs out for them to complete training; those who don't make the timer can always start over- before facing off against the Clans, whether PvE or live-pilot.

In another example, a certain contract has to be completed 100 times, say, before another part of a story-line can advance. JumpShip movement will require certain events to be completed -I don't actually know how this one would be accomplished. For instance, your JumpShip/fleet can leave your start point as soon as the unit commander sets up the jump, but you can't actually arrive on-planet -here we go, here's the answer-, until the defender has had the opportunity to set up their defenses and hits the arrival button, and then it's game on. There are ways to do this game other than a 1:1 time ratio. Even I see that it's got all manner of execution and game-breaking problems for those of us who actually care about more than 'pew pew', but having the actual travel times and repair times, even the much shorter ones listed in the sourcebooks, is flatly untenable.

Now, I've heard it mentioned several times that repairs should take neither time nor money (shudder). So, instead of having an economy as in the previous MW games, players and Merc Corps commanders make only about 8% of what they would normally make were the economy complete (again, frickin' shudder). No repairs, sundries, or real economy to wrest your money from you, means you should also not be allowed to afford customizations at any great rate.

I hear all of you in the twitch community, and I'm offering alternatives, but I'm really truthfully honestly praying our hosts will just make the game the way it's supposed to be made, and NOT TO APPEASE YOU! Talk about game-breakers, sheesh.

[FACEman Peck]

Kef, on 27 December 2011 - 11:01 PM, said:

Buy a second LRM-10 as a reserve, its so easy.

This isn't the point. This topic is about repair times, not a lack of munitions.