7 replies to this topic

[Lionev]

At first I wanted to suggest the armour system to be World of tanks style. With penetration values depending on gun, velocity, ect, ect, but then I realized that this would render light mechs and light weapons useless against larger more armoured targets. So I think a hybird of both WoT's armour thickness system and mw4's all shots do Damage system would work well. It would work like this:

The thicker a mechs armour the more weapons fire you can sustain before armour is "penetrated" and the mech is directly damaged. Lasers would be able to burn or melt away the armour of any mech but it would take some time if the armour is thick and the laser weaponry is weak.

Now where WoT's armour penetration comes in Balistics weapons such as auto cannons and MG's would not penetrate the armour of thicker mechs but it would cause more harm to weakpoints such as joints and lighter mechs. The obvious exeption would be weapons like railguns and Very large high caliber guns.

Missiles would function in similar ways as a barage of Lrms could soften up the armour and allow lighter guns to do more harm and penetrate the armour.

With this system it would allow heavy/assault mechs to soak up "random fire" meaing that only precision or prolonged assault would be able to destroy them. As for light/medium mechs they would never lose there use for out manuvering larger targets and slowly tearing them to bits. Also the mechs areas like joints and cockpits would always be vunerable no matter how much armour they have.

[SMDMadCow]

put on your flame suit, you're going to need it.

[verybad]

Well the Critical Hit system is a version of penetrations. People are probably too enamoured with the base hitpoint system in Btech to want changes in that, all though it would reflect weapon hits more accurately.

So my response would be, not bad ideas, but it probably won't happen..There are forms of armor in battletech that have a version of penetration values as well (it's called Ferro-Lamelar), however it's not part of common usage. Some primitive weapons work this way versus modern (in battletech) armor, doing less damage to more advanced armor.

Welcome to the forums

[Listless Nomad]

Perhaps he'd need a flame suit but a lot of it makes sense. Assault mechs are assault mechs for a reason, and I see no problem with them requiring a lot of cooperation to take down. This is how a lot of the damage was described from the novels - with successive impacts required to actually penetrate armor - before internal and vital structures were damaged (gyros etc).

[Durant Carlyle]

In the TT game, internal structure and weapons/equipment could be damaged even before all of the armor is gone. That works for TT, but not for a computer game.

In the computer games, all of the armor needed to be destroyed before the internal structure and weapons/equipment inside would take damage. This was as it should have been, and this is the way MW:O should be as well.

All weapons should do their normal damage against any area of the 'Mech, as this is the way it has been in the MechWarrior and MechAssault games. Nothing should be penetrated until all of the armor is destroyed first, and missiles shouldn't 'soften up' anything. A medium laser (or AC/2 or LRM or PPC or flamer or gauss rifle) should do the same damage to a 100 ton assault 'Mech as it does to a 20 ton scout. And the scout should die quicker because it has less armor, not because big weapons penetrated through to the internals without destroying the armor first.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

"In the TT game, internal structure and weapons/equipment could be damaged even before all of the armor is gone. That works for TT, but not for a computer game." Why? It is part of the balancing process that AC's and Missiles should do this, it is their main reason for existing.

[Mchawkeye]

Yet another armour thread? Hmmmm....

[Liam]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 19 January 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

"In the TT game, internal structure and weapons/equipment could be damaged even before all of the armor is gone. That works for TT, but not for a computer game." Why? It is part of the balancing process that AC's and Missiles should do this, it is their main reason for existing.

Why not to make penetration damage as additional damage (increased damage) to the hit boxes?
I think with a better hit zone segmentation and point accuracy / spread damage this should work as whole system, allowing better balancing.

This is example how it could work (armor segmentation will be also needed):

Liam, on 07 January 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Splash type of damage:

[Weapon]...[splash dmg]...[splash radius]
LBX 2 ……..…100…….... 0.75
LBX 5 ……..…100…….... 1.00
LBX 10 ….......100…….... 1.25
LBX 20 ……....100…….....1,50
AC 2 (HE) …...20……..... 0.20
AC 5 (HE) …...30…….. ...0.60
AC 10 (HE) .....40……..... 0.90
AC 20 (HE) .....50…….. ...1,10
LRM (HE) …....60…….. ...0.80
MRM (HE) …...75……...... 0.80
SRM (HE) …...70…….. ....0.80

[splash dmg] in % of the base damage
[splash radius] in m, considering an average mech being ~ 9 m high.

Other weapons are not so significant. UAC same as AC!?
LBX is more is more spread damage.

Penetration damage types:
Laser / Particle / AP / HE

Laser damage type represents all laser weapons. Particle represents all PPC types. To AP weapons belong AC with pierce rounds, Gauss rounds (not sure about UAC/LBX rounds TT wise). HE or HEAA (anti armor) includes HE AC rounds, LRM, SRM and MRM warheads.

Armor types:
Standard / Ferro Fibrous / Reflective / Reactive

How the damage could be affected by weapon penetration?

[Total weapon damage] = (weapon base damage)*(weapon penetration modifier)*(armor modifier)

Armor modifier...Laser..Particle ....AP .... HE
Standard………..(0.9) ... (1.0) ... (0.9)....(1.0)
Ferro Fibrous..…(1.0) ... (1.1) ....(0.8) ...(0.9)
Reflective……….(0.8) ....(0.8) ... (1.1) ...(1.1)
Reactive………...(1.1) ... (0.9) ... (1.0) ...(0.8)

Armor modifier rating against weapon types:
(0.8) - excellent
(0.9) - good
(1.0) - average
(1.1) - bad

Weapons modifier rating against armor types:
(0.8) - bad
(0.9) - average
(1.0) - good
(1.1) - excellent

Weapon penetration modifier:
Laser: ……..(1.35)
PPC: ……....(1.0)
Gauss: …….(1.32)
AC (AP): …..(1.5)
AC (HE): …..(1.0)
LRM (HE): ...(1.0)

more in:
http://mwomercs.com/...or-penetration/